Why I Don’t Mind When My Kids Are a Little Sad/Disappointed/Upset

The one thing I would share, which you probably already know, is to help your child figure out what is regulating to them. Some of the traditional stuff, deep breaths, etc, don’t always work for neurodivergent people. They may need something like proprioceptive input, deep pressure, repeating verbal stims, or something even more particular to them.

Interoception curriculum!

Alexandra, this is so helpful, thank you for sharing. One of the things I struggle with as a parent, and even with myself, is what to do with an emotion? I feel like our society is generally getting better at the idea of embracing emotions. The concept that “all feelings are okay” is actually on the cultural radar. Where I feel there is a gap is guidance on how to process an emotion. If we take anger as an example, we say it’s okay to feel angry, but then we disapprove of most outward signs of anger (outbursts, change in tone, etc.). There are many inappropriate ways to be angry, and I think most people could list them. But appropriate ways to express anger? I don’t think much guidance is offered in this regard. I’ve done a lot of introspection, meditation, prayer, listening/reading from experts, but I think it would be game changing if the “how” of processing an emotion were discussed more openly. I don’t only need to know the names of tools, I need to know how to actually use them. I’m so grateful to people like Kristin Neff and yourself who shed light on operationalizing this.

Hi Cindy! I’m no therapist, but I have been in therapy a while. Anger usually presents in my body as a really intense, kinetic thing and I need that exact behavior to get it out – I’ll jump, shout (if in an appropriate place like my home or car), punch the air, shake, and say things like “I’M MAD RIGHT NOW!!” Somatic processing of emotions is one of our greatest tools!

As a parent of a Chicago Public School kindergartener I agree with this 100%!!

I love this. I’m crying too !

We’ve been enjoying books from A Little SPOT series (Diane Alber). I’ve got a 4.5 and 6 year old.

The Bright Big Feelings books!

My son received “A Little Emotional” from the Dolly Parton library program and we pull it out a lot when big feelings are happening!

The Color Monster is wonderful!!!

The Grand Hotel of Feelings is wonderful!!! The hotel manager makes room for ALL the feelings and knows they all need different things.

Oh, Kate–yup. My sons are grown, but I went through this with both of them. And 1. several parents over the years have told me that my stance helped *them* make healthy decisions (!!!) and 2. my own boys have mentioned how they remember the clarity of our household rules and the benefits of the clear boundaries (after, of course, the sulks and “No one else’s parents. . . ” arguments).

oooh can’t wait to watch! thank you, Kirstin!

It’s actually so good for you! My therapist told me that tears contain cortisol!

oh my gosh, Kim!!!! this is incredible. wow, what you have survived and built.

I just love that you have created this for your children. Both my parents grew up in unstable and abusive families, mostly through what life dealt them (war, and the ways people recover from that ) but without ever experiencing a loving and supportive family they gave that to my brother and I. You are amazing! One day your kids will be adults and they will suddenly realise you were their hero all the way.

Hi Kim, thank you for sharing. My child experienced abuse and neglect for the first five years of life and so much of our parenting is focused on learning to regulate emotions and feel secure attachment. Honestly, it is really helpful to hear your story while we are in the thick of this. I couldn’t hope for a better outcome in our future. Thanks ❤️

Thank you all for your kind words. I couldn’t have healed without the privilege of health insurance and my husband who literally took the reins of taking care of everyone else and begged me to go to therapy. Love this site, Joanna. Often it feels like the only safe place online!

Bridget, mama solidarity. The topic of emotional regulation is an evergreen topic in my neurospicy household. I am practicing the same. <3

I hear you! to clarify, when they were younger, I held them and soothed them and validating them and walked them through emotional regulation tools for about age birth to 10; and now that they’re older, I’m slowing stepping back and giving them more space to try these tools on their own. they seem to want the autonomy (by leaving the room, taking breaks, etc.), and I don’t want to interrupt that process by following them and going into their rooms or trying to solve problems instead of letting them navigate through all their feelings. but if, during that process, they come find me, I’m so happy to hold them or sit with them while they feel those feelings; I’m always here for them — not to solve problems, but to witness them. and then when they’re ready to talk something through, I LOVE discussing big and small problems with them, as a sounding board; that’s one of my favorite parts of parenting. hope this makes sense, anonymous! thank you for writing xoxo

@Anonymous, I think the difference is being there for them when they come to you vs. following them/chasing them down when they want to be upset and alone. Sometimes teens really don’t want interference. Advice, support, hugs etc. are not always wanted by them. And then I think the respectful thing to do is not to interfere with their process; otherwise, they can feel smothered. When they come to you wanting advice, support etc., of course it’s important to be there for whatever they need.

Yes, was thinking the same when reading this. My ADHD daughter’s emotional dysregulation is a huge feature in our family’s life, and she will scream at you if you try to introduce any calm down methodologies into the equation. It’s like my encouraging her to breathe is an insult, or like I’m taking something away from her that she wants. Maybe anxiety is such a strong feeling that it’s attractive to the neurodivergent brain in the way that calm just isn’t. Anyway, I did need to read this today. My son last night – not quite a teen, but close! – had a meltdown because I wouldn’t buy him an expensive new computer. This meltdown included lamenting how poor we are, how his friends all have nicer houses and cars than we do, etc. When my kids say bratty and outrageous things like this it’s hard for me to just go let them steam in their rooms. It’s hard not to push back or try to moralize about “keeping up with the Joneses” – but it’s true that it’s not the right moment for learning.

we actually have a kid who is neurodivergent, and our experience at early ages was that he needed a LOT of scaffolding and help navigating big big feelings that lasted a really long time. now at an older age he has learned how to take a break and calm himself down before talking through the issue, but it’s still a work in progress of course. I’m sorry to not have talked more about neurodivergence here; I try to keep things pretty private, but then it can seem like a discussion lacks that side of things, I realize. thank you so much for your thoughts and notes!

100% on this – one of my children was hospitalized for a mental health condition (and also has epilepsy, some sort of unusual executive function disorder, and is gifted). We had to do an intensive outpatient program and one of the main things they taught us was that the typical parenting strategies don’t really work with kids with intense behavior or mental health issues. They DO work for most kids, but for kids who are neurodivergent, have more intense mental health issues, etc., there are a whole bunch of parenting techniques you need to try that no one is ever taught, and some of them are actually the opposite of typical parenting advice.

Very similar for raising kids with early childhood trauma. I think parents in the foster and adoption community share a lot with parents of ND kids. Plenty is different of course, but many behaviors and challenges in common

I love that this comment section has opened up a conversation about neurodivergence and emotional regulation. My 7 year old was recently diagnosed with ADHD, autism, and identified as gifted. It can feel very lonely… to put it lightly. I so appreciate your comment Joanna.

Thank you, Mary. My kid has ADHD (as does my husband), so emotional regulation is a particularly salient topic for me. Having the diagnosis and seeking out support has made a night and day difference.

Hi all: gifted plus ADHD/autism is called “twice exceptional” or 2e. It really helps as a search term when you’re looking for resources, and took me much to long to come across it. <3

Anon – I’m there with you on feeling alone. We didn’t add ASD for a few years when things still weren’t adding up; I’m glad you got that clarity sooner. The gifted part feels isolating since our child didn’t seem to “need” academic supports but it was so useful when we figured them out. And I’m grateful for Jo to highlight ND as well.

Thanks Mary. We actually had long, confusing year between his ADHD and autism diagnoses as well. And yes, doesn’t the giftedness/masking at school make it even that much more complicated!? We are definitely still in the thick of it all, and haven’t found anything that really helps him yet, but these comments give me some hope that maybe one day we will..

My daughter had a thumb sucking habit also-a bit different in that she did it while relaxing and falling asleep. Because of the 10 years of thumb sucking, she needed a palate expander. This was the only way she was going to stop sucking her thumb. I was prepared for hell since she wouldn’t have her soothing mechanism, but honestly, it was a couple of weeks of complaining and she adjusted. You have already done lots of work on helping them to learn other coping skills that its just now a process of breaking the habit-which they won’t likely do on their own.

Former thumb sucker here! I didn’t go until 5th grade, but it did go into some point of elementary school. I also had a blanket I would dig my thumb into to make holes with, and that often was a substitute (at home, I did not carry it around Linus-style). It was the thumb callous that started to gross me out and hurt as I got older. There were two other thumb suckers in my grade—one was made fun of a lot (that really scared me and reminded me to keep thumb sucking at home), and the other had a fake toy thumb they kept in their pocket and used as needed. It helped that we had a lot of nail-biters, whose moms must have all been talking, because they all had fake thumbs they used to tame the nail biting. I later went through very intense orthodontics in my teen years and rued my thumb sucking that led to it. I wish I had helpful advice, but you are doing great!! You sound supportive and loving, the most important thing your child needs.

I sucked my thumb until I was 12, but only at home, as I knew I’d be made fun of at school. I knew I did it because it was soothing (I had a ratty ball of yarn that was my “blankie” too… I still have it!) but I never made the connection to the experience of having a mentally ill mother until recently (I’m in my 50s). I only quit sucking my thumb because my mom told me that if I didn’t stop I was going to look like a person we saw in public who had a facial deformity. I doused my thumb in tabasco sauce in order to stop, and it worked. What I would like people to know about thumb sucking though is this. I had to have corrective jaw surgery, both upper and lower jaws, my mouth wired shut (I don’t think they do it this way anymore though) for 9 weeks when I was 16 because of the large overbite it caused. Now, in my 50s, I just discovered that I have degeneration of the condyles of my jaw and will never be able to open my mouth all the way again (I can laugh at myself that I have to kind of push food into my mouth to make it fit, lol, but I worry how this will progress over the next twenty years). Anyway, the truly soul comforting method of thumb sucking that helped me cope has had some serious and lifelong physical effects that couldn’t really be anticipated back then. It’s hard not to wish someone had provided me with an alternative and I hadn’t screwed my mouth up so much. Some food for thought.

I sucked my middle and pointer fingers until 7th grade. Only at home when watching tv or sleeping but as soon as I had to get a pallet expander – they wouldn’t fit anymore ! Had no choice but to give it up once orthodontia hit. Are braces in their future ? That could unintentionally put an end to things …

Counterpoint – I sucked my thumb until I was 12 (my family moved when I was 10 and I needed it as a coping mechanism). I trained myself out of it when “awake all night” slumber parties became a thing. I did not need orthodontia or have skin problems or get sick more often than other kids. I have not relied on it since then. I have a daughter who is 13 and still sucks her thumb to fall asleep. She also has orthdontia-free teeth and no other side effects. Sometimes its just a coping mechanism that you outgrow!

My mom bought a foul tasting thing from the pharmacy that was designed to prevent nail biting, and painted that onto my thumb. I don’t exactly remember how long it took to break the habit, but the fact that my mom meant business “we need to do this now” and wasn’t going to relent made me accept it. And the foul tasting thumb also helped, especially automatic behaviour, like during sleep.

This tension is REAL! The stakes seem high, right? Especially as kids get older. A recent episode of Dr. Becky’s podcast really put this in perspective for me. She was talking about sharing, but offered this insight: In any relationship, there are only 100% of any emotion or feeling, so when any part in the relationship takes on too much of the feeling or emotion, there isn’t enough left for the other person. Her example was sharing. If you have a kid who shares well (100% of the sharing) and one who doesn’t (0% of the sharing). You need to encourage the sharer to share less. I think this also applies to parenting. If you are doing 100% of the legwork or the mental load, or the managing, you aren’t leaving any percentage for the child. My mom was very “cheer-up, buttercup and look-on-the-brightside” about everything, and that left me 0% in the optimism department, and as a teen and tween, I badly needed to claim my own optimism. I think this extends to EVERYTHING. You can’t be 100% of the validation, the problem solver, the critic, the healer/fixer, the crank, the fun-maker, the apartment finder, etc. or it leaves nothing for the kid. This perspective shift has been very useful for me!

Your sister, Catherine, is a hero and angel on earth. Thank you for sharing Aileen.

Thank you Aileen for sharing this beautiful poem and the very important message it carries. Thank you Catherine Anderson for spreading the word. Unfortunately I’ve had to ask that question, and I’d like to reassure people who might need to in future, that it’s actually not as hard as you might think. Somehow, getting an answer, even when it’s not what you want to hear, can help. It gives you a starting point, a place to take action from. You feel slightly less helpless and the person you’re asking feels slightly less terrified.

Thank you for sharing this. I was disheartened to see that teaching emotional regulation is “suicide prevention.” The majority of people who die by suicide are suffering from a clinical level mental illness or challenge, and it doesn’t have anything to do with not being taught regulation. Can we please not add to the idea that those who die by suicide just weren’t mentally “strong” enough?

I love this so much Aileen, thank you! And thank you to your sister for writing and sharing this. Cait, I think there is a confusion. No one here is saying that “those who die by suicide just weren’t mentally “strong” enough”. And yes, teaching émotionnel régulation prevents suicide by helping people to feel better in their lives, even the ones with clinical illnesses (that can become less strong if émotionnel regulation is learned, and if the closed ones learn it too). And also it teaches people that IT’S OK to ask for help, that speaking about your challenges, your difficult emotions and showing your vulnerability is a real strength. So much people who commit suicide kept all their suffering for themselves and don’t see how many hands would have turned to them if they had shared their struggles. (And I unfortunately went through that as I lost a closed one this way).

I hear you on this. Me sitting in the room ‘calmly’ seems to make my kid blow up more (and increases the odds of me losing it)! The struggle is real. And trying to figure this stuff out with all the ‘pro-tips’ circulating is even harder!

@Jacqueline, To me, sitting in their room and co-regulating would be suffocating them. I think it’s disrespectful to your child to insist upon being there when they want to be alone and upset! Sometimes people need to be alone to calm down and feel better!

Yes, that should be a base rule always. It’s hard today’s climate, but I teach high school and the number of kids who tell me they’re going down internet rabbit holes until the wee hours is unreal.

Hi Kay, maybe a different angle as I am currently introducing some life guidelines myself, that could be of use for any age: internet connected device only at kitchen table (where other humans walk by etc.) to keep it short and when not eating. Not on the sofa, definitely not in the bedroom. I can have a call with another human. But no social media, no google (I want to teach my brain to not google everything, it gets boring). And because I need to go back to the kitchen table every time a „let’s google that“ / „Uh I had a thought I don’t like so let’s dive into insta instead and drown myself in there and not live my life“ crosses my brain, I stop myself because „oh my, what am I doing with my life?“ Podcasts only when walking (also in rainy weather) because I tend to spend more time with podcasts (not all great quality) than with people or just in silence (to hear my own thoughts). Also: regular weekly get out of the house events with other people (sport, choir, volunteering). No excuses. I need to relearn that people are better than the internet. I started with all of that 7 weeks ago. Expanding the standard circle of connections, including talking about life and feelings. I feel a bit like 1992. I like it. And I think others might like it, too.

I would love more conversation about how this works. In principle, I am in favor of no screens in bedrooms. In practice, my kid listens to podcasts and audiobooks while brushing teeth, and as a solo activity and I really don’t want to take that away. Which means… he’s doing it on a screen. Any tips????

Charlotte, I will adopt your principles! Thank you!

This comment is for Mado: Two ideas to have no screens, but do have podcasts and audiobooks: 1. Set up screentime controls on their device that you set; all other apps except podcast and audiobooks are unusable between certain hours, e.g. 8pm-8am 2. If you have an old iPhone laying around, you can erase all the apps on it except the podcast and audiobook apps. (You make yourself the owner of the phone, or it can be with the child’s account, but you set it up to require any apps added App Store requires a password.). This phone doesn’t need cellular data, it can just be a wifi connected device and you can download podcasts and audiobooks on it. Think of it as an upgraded iPod.

Mado, we have a Yoto player that my kids use for audiobooks. They keep it in their room but you could easily move it around. We love it because they can independently listen to books and podcasts, but it’s not a screen/internet access. Worth checking out!

May be time to bring back the CD player. You can borrow books on CD and music from the library!

Dear Ruby, sending you a big hug. You’re seen. <3

Ruby, I’m just a stranger on the internet and I’m not a mom but I just wanted to say I’m SO HAPPY FOR YOU for your queerness and your joy.

Your mom grew up at a time that being queer causes pain and sadness, she expressed her fears to you. This does not necessarily mean she rejected you or she stopped loving you.

Congratulations, Ruby! I definitely feel like the queer identity and community is the opposite of what your Mum thinks it is. She’s only 67 – mine’s quite a bit older – so I’m thinking that, with time, seeing you grow into the person you were meant to be will clear up her wrong impressions. In the meantime, I wish I could share mine with you. She wouldn’t care who you’re bringing over for a visit, as long as they’re down for tea and Golden Girls reruns.

Much love to you, Ruby, without condition.

I don’t have a suggestion just wanted to say it sounds like you are a really good mom. You can see how much you love your daughter from those few sentences <3

Annie! You helped your daughter survive through her suffering. You all— you and your daughter— have been so brave. And perhaps now, as a family, you work towards some new patterns. I am 34, my sister is 30, and my parents and us all did family therapy to start to develop new patterns and let go of ones that no longer support us. All families need to make changes as life changes. You have not failed! Your just ready for something new.

Hi annie, I can’t recommend the book “codependent no more” from Melodi Beatty enough for situations like this. It really helped me find my way with a relative who had needed me a lot for a while but then never learnt to stand on their own feet – or I didn’t let them?

Sounds like you are an loving mom who has a daily who think you are her safe space. I think it is really important to not rush to solve a problem so all the suggestions here are great, but also feeling like someone is there for you is amazing. Not everyone’s kids are the same my younger son struggles with anxiety so he went through a phase of needing me to be with him as he went to bed-at first I was eager to wnd it have him try to learn to self regulate but his therapist actually suggested that I sit with him, have a little chat and then not soothe him but just he there (I put in earbuds and listened to a book) she said he wouldn’t want that forever and now he is 14 and doesn’t need that anymore Maybe when your daughter come over you can just sit with her in her discomfort and let her try to figure out what to do in her own whole she has your comforting presence But Im not a therapist so also a therapist for you or her or both of you might also help

I agree with the previous poster who said to read that Codependent No More book. The first thing I thought when I read your post is that you sound like you’re dealing with being codependent. It will drive you insane. Please look into that book or just learn more abt codependency and what to do abt it.

I don’t know the specifics of your story, but it sounds like you’re blaming yourself for …doing your best. Knock it off!! You are a good mom b/c you care and you acted out of love! You did your best then and you’ll keep doing your best now, even if what your best looks like changes as you get more information (mostly from experience, not blog posts) and your kid grows.

As a mother, especially when you are worried about suicidal, it is too much to ask that you also figure out how to prevent codependence. Now that she is older and you hopefully feel safer, you can pursue whatever you think is best everyone – but I hope you won’t shame yourself or feel badly for your protectiveness, which in all likelihood saved her life. So much love to you ❤️

I love this! What a great framework to teach to young elementary aged kids.

Thinking of you and your daughter during this hard time.

Sending you internet hugs! This is so so hard.

I’m sorry this is such a rough time for you and your daughter (and your friends and their child too). I’m just a random lady in the comments section but wanted to say you sound like a thoughtful and caring parent, and I hope that six months from now you still be in a much better space after making it through this storm.

Thinking of you and your daughter! Sending love.

With you deeply on this. Parenting is so complicated and difficult. Especially when we’re recovering from our own trauma and navigating mental health, while also supporting our children through theirs. Hugs of solidarity to all.

Interesting! My kid – who is 16 – says the same thing about the 9-11 year old cohort. She works at summer day camps and sees it very starkly. Her theory is that it’s a pandemic effect. That these kids lost the emotional regulation they would have got at a formative time starting school and surrounded my peers. This emotional growth was not only delayed, but replaced by lots of screen time, busy stressed parents, and heightened cultural anxiety. Has anyone else noticed the same thing?

You sound like an awesome coach! Keep up the good work! You are helping those kids build their emotional resilience.

Well said, Sara–letting kids feel their feelings AND teaching them that there are times to put those feelings aside for a little while to accomplish something or get perspective: I would say those concepts are not opposites, but two parts of a vital whole. Both are necessary for true health and balance.

A friend lead a hiking group of college students for a fortnight in Spain and came away saying that they had the maturity level of high schoolers.

I don’t think it’s the pandemic at all. I am convinced that parents now do not let their child fail or experience any sort of difficulty, so when that happens they cannot cope. Life is going to be a bumpy ride for them. I may take fire for this take, but I stand by it.

This doesn’t surprise me one bit! I was a manager for a popular clothing retailer that employed a lot of young adults (I think our median employee age was 20) and I was astonished at how many parents of adult children would chime in and try to “do” their uncomfortable conversations for them. I’ve had parents try to quit on their children’s behalf, attempt to call in sick for them, berate me for performance managing them over obvious issues, etc. One Christmas a girl tried to bring a puppy in for her shift (cute, but not the time, and not without asking first please!) and when I told her she needed to find somewhere else for her dog to go, she replied “but… MY MOM SAID I COULD!” Thanks Jo for encouraging the masses through your share to see their children’s capability and allow them to explore it individually. I believe thoughtful approaches will yield 20 year olds who have the fortitude to live their lives on their own terms, come what may.

Sara, it sounds like you’re a thoughtful coach and I’m sure the kids are grateful for you. I teach at a Title 1 behavioral alternative school (meaning my kids get kicked out of their assigned schools and sent to us for a time). I think it’s important to dig into the ways that systemic and generational poverty overwhelms the nervous system. Not to mention, parents that were never taught how to regulate and are now working multiple jobs, facing food insecurity, etc. don’t have the bandwidth to stop and evaluate patterns and break cycles. With that being said, my school staff spent an entire year doing trauma-informed care training and mental health first aid. We actively work on mindfulness and emotional regulation with our kids and it really works. Sometimes they just need someone to teach them some different ways to cope. And you can’t teach them while they’re escalated. You can’t learn during stress. Work on a new technique during practice or before games (even just mindful breathing and being aware of how your body feels in certain emotional states). Thanks for all the work you’re putting in. Great coaches have such an impact.

That is eye opening to me, A. Thank you for sharing. I actually remember, after our divorced, one of my kids asked me, why are we all sad but you are happy? And I was surprised because of course I was sad too, but I had been trying to hide it from them and be a rock for them. I realized that it might have been helpful for me to share more of my feelings. Thank you for sharing this!

Thank you for this. It is just what I needed for me!

This is a great way to frame it

Oh 100000000% — I sat with them and helped show them how to regulate for 9-10 years, and then slowly stepped back so they could do it on their own xoxo

excellent point, EMB! I think age is critical here – unless a child is being hurtful or the parent needs to step out to de-escalate. Kids don’t inherently have a capacity to regulate their emotions, and that gets developed over time through co-regulation with parents and other trusted adults. I think what Joanna is speaking into is that it’s then hard for a lot of parents to back off from that during the teen years, which can then stunt teens’ ability to regulate on their own — or without parents bypassing the emotions to just “calm down.”

It sounds like you’re doing a great job! Just wanted to pass along a recommendation for the podcast Flusterclux by Lynn Lyons. It’s got sooooo many good suggestions for dealing with anxiety. I’ve learned so much as a parent and a human from that one podcast alone.

Gentle hugs May. You know what I wish? I wish MY mom had been mothered by someone like Joanne. Instead she was the oldest to a teen mom, who never wanted to be a mom and told her 3 children so. She was abusive in every sense. My granddad did little to protect them. Knowing how my mom was raised, and a teen mom herself, my dad not a stellar husband, losing a much wanted child, being poor and smart but uneducated, my gosh she hit it out of the damn park. Did I get the kind of mothering i deserved? No. My mom suffered from ptsd and postpartum depression after her beloved baby died that never ended. She couldn’t bond with me. And also….. she did her best. I know that with complete certainty. Because she tried so very hard, I had more empathy for my kids. I worked so hard to bond with them. I also missed the mark by a mile, but I thank my mom every day for trying. Most of us are. None of this is meant to diminish what you are feeling. I just wanted to add some empathy for previous generations too. Ours is not the first that didn’t get the mothering we deserved or needed. Breaking generational trauma is the most important work we can all do. Standing ovation for anyone out there trying their best.

Sasha, I have a similar experience. I have a long line of women on my mom’s side of the family who each did much better than the generation before AND did not give their kids the parenting they deserved. One thing I’ve found helpful in adulthood is letting go of the pressure to always acknowledge how far my mom came every time I’m thinking or talking about her parenting. I went through a lot of therapy to realize how much it was ingrained in me to feel guilty that I wished I had a different mothering experience because I know with zero doubt how incredibly my mom did in the face of her life challenges. She grew up poor, with a single mom in the 60s, getting herself breakfast and to school starting in kindergarten, to name just a couple tiny things about her life that I’ll never understand since she gave me the complete opposite. And, while overall having that information and empathy has been key to maintaining and nurturing my relationship with my mom as an adult best I can, it was not helpful to my own healing to constantly feel like I had to acknowledge it every time I tried to process my own life experience. I’d gently say…you have no idea from May’s comment the context of her own mother’s journey or if she does or doesn’t have knowledge and empathy for how much her own mother did or didn’t overcome, and it’s not necessary for us to always, every time, acknowledge what our own parents went through when we’re processing or prioritizing our own emotions in a particular moment (especially moments when we’re not directly interacting with our parents — it doesn’t hurt my mom for me to say in an internet comment that she’ll never read or to my husband/friend or therapist that the way she parented me was damaging, it materially hurt me as a child and into adulthood, and I deal with the impact of that to this day).

Sam, agree with all. I hope i wasn’t implying May should feel anything that I do, or that there’s any way she should feel, period. If so, that’s not what I meant to convey. I simply wanted to add to the conversation. Hey comment brought up all of this for me, and I thought there may be others who can relate. I think almost all of us can relate to wishing we had or could do better. It’s such a gift for children to grow up with the skills Joanna is teaching in this post. Such a gift. Thank you for your comment, I appreciate it.

This is so heart-breaking. I’m sorry for your loss.

So sorry for your loss, Nicola. As a Millenial, I feel like we were taught the hustle culture much more so than any mental health skills. Your son is lucky to be immersed in the knowledge that he’s the whole point – not his future resume. What a healthier perspective.

I have a daughter who is autistic, and have had to experience difficult times out in public. First, while in the car, I pull over when safe. Try to get them to calm down using the STOP method: S: stop, pause. T: take four long breaths,O: observe- how does your body feel, what is your mind doing, what is the environment like (it’s a crisp day, etc), P: Pick a physical calming technique (tapping, squeezing hands, fidget toy, etc) and Proceed mindfully with expressing feelings using words. I also ask if she wants a hug or to be held. For my daughter, it was helpful to have that proprioceptive feedback. In public, sometimes we are able to find a place where it’s a little away from people and we work through it, again first initial the STOP method. Lots of hugs while in the midst of it, but there have been times when it was simply embarrassing and I felt like a failure. In the end, those people don’t know what’s happening, and you likely won’t ever see them again.

Hi! My best friend lost both her father and sister to suicide in a short period of time when we were in college. The most important thing I learned, which I actually had to learn again and again and again, was that I could not fix the situation or make it right. Obviously we’re adults and we know this, but it’s hard to actually hold that truth when you’re faced with someone suffering. If you can really internalize it, though, it does take a lot of the pressure off. His brother is dead and there’s nothing you can do about it, which means all you have to do is keep showing up. I think you’re doing everything right- it’s a gift to have someone loving and consistent with no expectations in your life, especially after a tragedy. Imo, the best thing you can do is whatever you can do regularly- maybe you call every other week on Sunday afternoons just to chat, even if it’s for five minutes. You may have to do some trial and error conversationally, and you may have to feel like an idiot blabbering on while he says “uh huh.” That is okay. These moments will have a cumulative effect. This is not grief specific but I know with my little brother I always have to start the phone conversation with something concrete I want his opinion on, and that helps him sort of warm up and then things flow more easily. So if you know anything about his interests or what he likes to do, I would start there. The other thing that my friend seemed to appreciate is when I would bring up her dad or brother first, instead of waiting for her to do it. I had to work up the nerve every time but it meant a lot to her just to hear someone say their names and to know that someone else remembered them, even though she had so many complicated feelings about them both. That, and very quick check in texts ahead of big days like the event you’re describing- “Hey, just wanted to check in and let you know I’m thinking of you and I love you. I’m always here. No need to respond to this.” I know it all feels very basic but the basics are all we’ve got in the face of life and death. He is so lucky to have you in his life!

I can’t imagine what you and your family are going through right now. I’m sending you warmth and care. Is it possible for you or someone else to offer to pay for a therapist who’s not associated with the campus? I do remember that when I was at college, a friend had expressed suicidal ideation and was effectively kicked off campus – sometimes liability concerns lead to effective expulsion or lock people out of campus housing. I’m just wondering if helping to find the right fit, take care of the cost, etc. for someone remote will be more effective for actually connecting him to care without the risks that can come with on-campus support. Hopefully other schools aren’t like how mine operated, but it’s one thought. It sounds like you’re already showing up for your nephew in a major way, and that you’re doing all the right things. Sending a tight squeeze.

Please continue to reach out and listen. Even being able to speak out loud can take a long time. I wonder if the Student health center knows about your nephews’s traumatic loss? In the immediate aftermath a suicide survivors group can be hugely helpful! And if your nephew withdraws or seems not to be doing well please ask him if he is thinking about killing himself and listen to his answer! Good luck!

just keep reaching out… you never know the thing that is going to break through…. you may get a lot of what feels like rejection…. take it in stride and keep being the supportive grown up in the room. You might send some snacks to his apartment. Keep sending cards or notes in the mail. Maybe share a poem or two that brings you comfort. Dont be afraid of doing too much- I like to think of grief like a snail shell in shape- in the new fresh state- feelings circle around, close and tight and intense…. as time passes and healing happens, the feelings still circle- but with greater spacing and room for them to be regulated…. for you- I suggest a relaxing quick hobby- maybe watercolor painting- something you can focus on for 10 minutes at a time and bring yourself some care, focus and joy

Hey Anon, My dad died this way, so a different relationship but I feel like I can speak to this. I would say reach out to him, but probably not at the memorial. He’s likely going to be inundated with well-wishers then. This is never going to go away for him, so if you want to make the biggest impact, neither should your offer of support. My experience was that there was an absolute cascade of people offering to help right around the funeral and then… everyone just resumed their lives and now, almost a decade later, I’m still picking up the pieces. Most people probably never think about my dad anymore, but I think about him everyday. Just make yourself available, and check in periodically. Put his brothers birthday in your calendar so you remember each year, and send a text if that feels appropriate (“thinking about you today <3” or something). Text him when you’re in town to see if you can buy him lunch. Just be available but don’t shove support down his throat. That’s my take at least.

Your concerns and questions on behalf of your nephew are so loving and thoughtful. As both a mental health professional and as someone who has lost loved ones to suicide, I wanted to respond (though obviously this isn’t official therapeutic advice, as a disclaimer). Basically, my impression is that you should say all of this to your living nephew. Say it straight. Tell him what specifically you’re worried about and ask him how he is doing, what he is thinking, offer him a space to say whatever the hell he wants to say and be clear that there is no expectation for his feelings or questions to look any which way. Let him know you’re not scared of talking about suicide or suicide contagion, and then be open handed about however he wants to respond, or if he does at all. He’ll likely never forget that there was an opening, and whether or not he chooses to take it, it’s an invitation for him to be seen and cared for. You never know how that might even inspire him to reach out to someone else, even if that person isn’t you. No matter how close he was to his brother or not, it was his brother and he will feel this loss the rest of his life. Losing him at this age, when so much of life and one’s sense of home and family is reforming is so intense. He’s old enough for you to be straight with him, but just be open to you yourself not being the one that knows what might be popping up for him most this early on in his grief. He’s lucky to have someone so curious about how he is doing! Hope this is helpful 💚 My heart just had to respond!

Anon, my sister died from suicide in 2021 and aside demo my own grief the thing that has weighed most heavily on my is worrying about the impact on my you get siblings. I’m not an expert but the frequent casual contact you maintain with your nephew sounds like exactly what you should be doing. You can’t be his therapist but you can let him know that you care about him and are there for him if he ever needs anything, and you’re doing that by staying in contact with him.

Anon, just sending you my admiration and solidarity. What a tough time. It sounds like you’re doing a truly beautiful job as an aunt, daughter, person.

I wish I had any advice for you. What an immensely painful situation for you and your whole family. Bless you for looking out for your nephew and I hope you also have someone you can turn to for support.

Boy, Anon, what a thing to go through (I feel weird calling it a “thing”). I don’t have any experience in this realm, but I would imagine it can be helpful to have a relative who is not a parent or sibling to talk to. So I guess I’m just here encouraging you to hang in there and keep reaching out.

Anon, your nephew is so lucky to have someone in his corner like you. Way to go in being up front and asking if you can keep in touch, and then following through. I suspect your nephew already knows he can reach out to you. I also sense that there is part of you inside that knows how to be present with him. Often times we don’t need someone else’s voice, we need their capacity to sit with us so we can find our own strength and voice. When we understand how to regulate and be present with our own selves in our complexity, we expand our capacity to do the same for others. This takes courage, and you already have shown that be reaching out and not hiding away from the scary possibility that he’s struggling too. You’ve got this. Trust your instincts.

It’s tough but the best thing you can do is just let him know you’re there, and it sounds like you’ve done that already! But something that can pave the way is sharing stuff you can talk about together like books/tv/movies/music. If he’s a reader, you can send him a book you think he’ll like. Maybe he’ll never read it, but maybe he will, and maybe he’ll bring it up with you later, and the more moments like this you have, the more you’re chipping away at any sense he might have that he’s alone with his thoughts and feelings. Sending your whole family the best! What a tragic loss :(

Ok, this is a toughie, but I can promise you that even if it doesn’t seem to be helping, telling your living nephew that you are a “safe space” is doing a world of good. it may not seem to be, but I promise you it’s taking root. I’ve walked the path of having a teacher being a safe space when I was fifteen years old and living in the salvation army. We had lunch today — thirty years later. I promise you, you’re helping. So sorry for you and your family. Make sure someone is holding a safe space for you as well!

A daily text to him to check in would be helpful, as would sharing your number with his roommates.

Don’t let him be. Keep up the communication, even if one-sided. Keep it up for the rest of your days. It’ll mean something in the long run, if not the immediate.

Hi anon, first I want to offer a virtual hug. What you’re going through is a lot, so please make sure to take care of yourself. Second, its clear you have so much love for your family and that love will undoubtedly be felt by them even if you aren’t sure what to do right now or how best to help. When my younger brother went to college he had a rough time and had a bit of a crisis. My parents were out of the country and so my aunt bought a plane ticket and was at my brother’s side before anyone could even suggest it. Having a loving and caring aunt is a huge blessing, and I bet your nephew is going to appreciate anything you do to show up for him. Everyone is different and I don’t have experience with everything your family is going through, but I bet if you planned some time to go visit him (when he feels okay about it) and take him out to a nice dinner or go on a walk or go see a movie, it could give him something to look forward to. And you’re already doing a great job by asking what he’s comfortable with and being respectful with his wishes. Sometimes I find its hard for younger people to express what they need when they are going through tragedy or crisis because they don’t actually know what they need, this is unknown territory. Your nephew could be different but when I was in my teens and early twenties it was really hard for me to reach out and ask for help or even verbalize what I was feeling. My parents told me regularly that I could come to them for anything but I often felt paralyzed and couldn’t initiate. But if they did the talking and were vulnerable with me first, it helped me open up and feel that I could share what I wanted/needed to say. Sometimes someone else taking the initiative is a relief. I also have a lot of family members that have had dementia and it’s devastating. It’s a long grieving process and the person you love changes so dramatically. It’s hard to put into words how sad of an experience it is to witness. I’m so sorry for the loss of your nephew and that you have to carry the emotional loss of your mother at the same time. I hope the memorial is a time for your family to express their love for each other and give lots of hugs. From one aunt to another, you’re doing the right thing by simply caring for and loving your nephew.

I’m so sorry for your loss.

I’m so sorry for your loss, Anon, and very glad you are making such an effort to connect with your nephew. I was 24 when my younger brother died by suicide, and it was so, so hard. I felt like my parents got a lot of support, but I got much less. My friends (understandably) didn’t know how to be there for me, and I didn’t know how to ask for what I needed. I think the frequent check in’s you’ve described are wonderful. I fully support you telling him directly that you are there for him. Being the only remaining child is really difficult, and there are definitely some things you just aren’t comfortable talking about with your parents. Sending all of you love during this difficult time.

I love the recommendations to tell him exactly what you have told us. I’d echo that with writing him a letter too or frequent texts. “I am here, call me anytime day or night.” My church has a support group for those who have lost loved ones by suicide. Helping him find a support group like this could be the community he needs. And regardless of his/your faith, a church member can proactively reach out. Sending love!

I don’t have any advice, but wanted to say I love that you asked him for consent to reach out and what was his preferred method. That is so smart and caring. Perhaps you can occasionally send care packages with his favourite treats or a gift certificate for a restaurant? I would send them randomly so he knows someone is thinking of him beyond the big days such as his brother’s birthday or the anniversary of his death. Sending you and your family hugs.

Anon, you sound absolutely lovely and thoughtful, and your nephew is so very lucky to have you in his corner. All the above advice is spot on, as well. My one thing to add, as someone who experienced a big, very difficult loss far from family – my relatives were great with the meaningful check-ins, and I knew they would have been there for me if/when I needed to reach out, but I would have really liked some more casual interactions. Even the most well-meaning “thinking of you – how are you doing?” text can feel like an obligation, and frankly, a lot of the time I didn’t want to engage because I didn’t have time to ride the grief merry-go-round that day. But text me a funny video clip or a gif, send me a link to an article I might be interested in, text me about the best breakfast you made recently – all of those are JUST as good at showing you care and are thinking of me, but they require less emotional capacity to handle on my end.

Way to go Jordan!

I think you are doing the right thing…you can be mad but not mean. Kids need to learn boundaries. If she doesn’t learn some self control even when she is mad, she may say something to someone and it will have more dire consequences. You sound like a wonderful and caring mama! Hang in there.

Perhaps in a calmer moment, you and your daughter can brainstorm safe and healthy ways to express anger (things that don’t hurt us or others – I’d include name-calling in that, since that won’t be Ok at school or as she grows up), and then do that together as a redirection? Kids at that age need some boundaries to navigate such big emotions, and it sounds like you are doing an awesome job at validating her feelings and also setting appropriate limits.

It sounds like she is searching for the right words to express her anger. Maybe sit down together and talk about which phrases she can use and model those for her when you are also angry.

While there may be some extreme scenarios that call for exceptions, it’s not actually healthy or helpful for kids or adults to use abusive language with each other. Holding this boundary is a supportive strategy for your kid, and for all relationships where you employ it.

“You can be mad but you can’t be mean”—I like that!

We always say “you can be upset but you can’t be rude”

I’m the same. I’m all for kids feeling their feelings but not at the expense of other people. When my kiddo (10) lashes out at me, I basically do the same thing as you’re describing. I tell her that I get that she’s feeling mad/sad/tired and totally respect that, but I can’t allow her to call me names/be mean to me, etc. I’m her mother, and I’m also a person with feelings. I’ll ALWAYS hold space for her, she knows that she’s unconditionally loved, AND she’s also growing up to be a good human (I hope!)

I’ve heard of the phrase “connection before correction”. So, maybe when she is being mean, help her to emotionally regulate and connect with her on a soft level. And once she has had time to breathe, regulate, and think it through, then let her know that she can be mad but not mean. Connection before correction is easier said than done, but it helps to have that phrase in my mind before I try to “teach” in a heated moment.

Well done- It is so important to teach a person that it is okay to be mad but not mean (I like that!).

Oh I love this! I needed to hear this advice. I am going to try this on my 3.5 year old.

I remember when I read Little Women for the first time, there’s a scene where Jo’s mom talks with her about how they both have the capacity to say mean, biting things when they’re mad, and usually their dad would help their mom keep cool, but he was away so they’ll have to help each other instead. You can’t talk to a nine year old exactly the same way, but just reading that scene was so impactful for me as someone who also was initially very mean when I was mad as a kid and teen, and my mom just told me I’m naturally a mean person when I get upset and I need to get it under control. Now as an adult, I fully have it under control and it’s no longer an issue, but wow for years I felt like a monster. My mom also is mean when she’s mad! I could have used some connection and reassurance that’s it’s totally normal, but also something we are responsible for learning to process emotions in other ways, and harness that sharp/quick tongue for good, not evil! No specific advice here really, just thoughts that came up as someone who has been in your daughter’s shoes.

This, the asking for time alone or a moment to process and explaining why is so self-loving in the best win/win way.

You sound like a Marmie from Little Women <3.

To me, Farhana, loving someone entails creating spaces of safety for myself. I can love someone and not allow them to mistreat or violate me. And I don’t have to stop loving someone to make myself safe from their violence.

Can you ask your question in a different way? I don’t understand what you mean- prob a lack of intelligence on my part! I know so many here would love to help you :).

I will be using all of these scripts! Thank you Kate.

This made me tearful. What an amazing gift.

Thank you for sharing this beautiful memory with us, S. Lee, a pebble I hold and turn often in my pocket this week.

Oh, wow, amazing mom, so thoughtful and caring!

Thank you for sharing this beautiful memory.

What a beautiful experience. This made me cry too.

this made me cry at my work desk this morning. how beautiful.

Parenting masterclass. I love your mom.

screenshotted this. tears. thank you for sharing.

I think that’s about the age when my kids thought they were mini-adults, worrying if things would be like this forever. I also suspect they’re probably thinking they are awake more than they actually are, and worrying that they are a person who can’t sleep and what does that mean? When my kids had phases like this, it was about normalizing it. Saying things like, maybe you won’t fall asleep right away, but you will sleep again in your life! Maybe you’re just tired for a day or two, sometimes that happens. Or, even if you don’t fall asleep right away, your body is still resting and that’s great. Or, sometimes I have trouble falling asleep too, but it’s just a phase and eventually it all gets normal again. Or, let’s get up and have a midnight snack! Then have some cheese or cereal in semi darkness and make it a one-time memory. And, maybe they need to take a warm bath before bedtime? Write out a list of things that they’re worried about? Read a book they loved when they were little?

I had sleep anxiety as a kid sometimes. I remember being the only one awake during naptimes at my babysitters or preschool! A good idea to try is to take the focus away from falling asleep or being asleep. Focus on the experience or journey, not the outcome. Tell her she may not fall asleep, and that’s fine, but she still needs to follow bedtime routines and lay in bed during certain times. It’s okay if all she does is lay there. Tomorrow she will be tired and that’s okay too. I still tell myself this when insomnia strikes – I’m going to lay here and listen to this white noise music and if I’m tired tomorrow, it’s not the end of the world!

A mug of warm vanilla almond milk (Almond Breeze) with 1tsp grated ginger in it. Magic. Also, I had so tremendously evil and graphic nightmares when I was exactly that age – I never watched scary movies or etc – they came from nowhere I could understand. Consider doing a blessing or energy clearing of the room – with her helping – so that she has only sweet energy as she goes to sleep. Also, there are amazing sleeping playlists you can download on youtube like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MPRbX7ACh8&list=PLsuCfYXzi5DLAwszbJ9As6e-tsvibGpS8 Making sure she winds down at least an hour before bed and is not having stimulation like exciting movies or spicy foods before bed, and instead turning on super relaxing instrumental music and low lights for the last hour before being tucked in helps too..

OCD-sufferer here. This sounds a little like reassurance seeking, which can be (but of course isn’t always!) a part of anxiety/OCD. When I was younger, I used to ask repeatedly if I was going to get into a car accident or a planet crash. Now I struggle with something similar with my anxious and neurodivergent five year old (he asks what time of day it will be when we get back from running errands or something, because he dreads the evening and bedtime), and we have found it so much more helpful to stop participating in his repetitive questions/statements. We do it gently, like “I’ll tell you one more time and then I won’t answer again,” or similar. I recently attended a training that gave me some really helpful language to add to what we say, and is so widely applicable in parenting: “I know this is hard, but I know you can do it!” It comes from an approach developed by the author of this book: https://a.co/d/60FmORG. Bedtime stuff can be so hard!!! Other things that have worked for me and my kid: weighted blankets, white noise, and an audiobook to fall asleep!

Our son went through something similar, and a therapist taught him to “change his channel”. We made a photo book on shutterfly- we called it his “remote” book- and it had 10 pages of various pictures of happy memories- family trips, time with cousins, etc. When he would begin to spiral, we would prompt him to read his book and change his channel. It almost always worked.

Not sure if this would be helpful or not, but my daughter moved into a new bedroom over the summer, and I swear I didn’t get to sleep through the night for two weeks straight as she was always getting up in the night. We got her a silicone nightlight buddy https://a.co/d/9HBhVJi she named Pinkie, and Pinkie sits at the head of her bed, she can turn it on anytime she needs in the night (it has a 20 minute light timer), and while she knows she can get up anytime she really needs us, Pinkie guards her and keeps her company and we have all slept so much better.

My son goes through this regularly (he’s got an active mind–and is as joyful as he is anxious, a lot of both). His doctor told him something that seemed to put him at ease: she said, your body knows what you need, and almost no growing person can physically stay awake all night, even if they want to. So your body will override your mind and you will fall asleep. Your job isn’t to go to sleep, but to luxuriate in your bed, your books, your yoto player, and enjoy being snuggled in there, knowing you’re in a safe place where people love you. Forget about falling alseep. That’ll happen exactly when your body needs it. That gave him permission to stop worrying, and helped us reframe his bed as like his own personal spa. It’s a comforting vision to return to even though he still sometimes struggles with worries and falling asleep.

If she’s not able to regulate herself at night, getting tactical support in helping her regulate during the day via an occupational therapist or child play therapist who specializes in nervous system regulation seems called for. And in the meantime if she’s not falling back asleep by herself at night, taking the interim step of helping her via sleeping beside her is the lesser of two undesired outcomes. It’s very possible to reinforce unwanted physical and neurological responses to a stressor by persisting the stressor. Some kids just need more reps before they get used to a “parental expectation” / significant developmental milestone. And some kids are profoundly UNHELPED by persisting a stressful situation that they aren’t adapting to. My kid is in the second category. Something that’s recently helped with my kid is asking if he’d like reiki energy as part of bedtime or after a scared wake-up (I’m reiki attuned) and a gentle hand on head and hand on heart with some soothing reiki energy has been really helpful for him. If you’re interested in energy work exploring a Level 1 reiki attunement could be something that serves you well. And some practitioners will work with kids your daughter’s age too. So you could gain that tool together. Whatever path(s) you take, I wish you and your family so much love, peace, and healing sleep in the days and weeks to come.

Check out the book, “Anxious Kids, Anxious Parents” by Lynn Lyons and Reid Wilson – it helped with a similar bedtime scenario with our daughter.

Midge — my parents took a very similar approach with me! When I was a preteen and couldn’t sleep, my dad would say something like, “our bodies work so well every day, all day. makes sense that every so often it gets confused and we can’t sleep!” That usually snapped me out of worrying about never sleeping again. And he’d usually sit with me in the dark kitchen with a mug of warm milk or tea and we’d talk or sit silently. Eventually I’d get back to bed. Now I really cherish those memories!

From a different perspective… much of the world shares sleep with their young, and not so young! Most of the mammal world, and lots of the human world too. Of course it’s not always by choice, but rather necessity, but sometimes I feel like this culture’s insistence on sleeping alone contributes to problems. I personally wouldn’t have any problem offering to share some sleeping arrangements for a while and see if it helped.

I would not use the term “worry monster” because it’s scary! Have her name her anxiety- a kind of old-fashioned name like Marge or Barbara is fun. “Oh yes. We knew Marge would show up around this time. Hi Marge! You can ride on x’s shoulder but we’re not going to allow you to boss her around. We know you’ll keep chattering away but we’re just going to turn down your volume.” My husband actually just had a huge amount of success using the book The Sleep Book for adult insomnia- a lot of it is Acceptance and commitment therapy. Just allowing the feelings and thoughts to be there and not trying to fight them off, ironically, helps you sleep. I recommend it! Also some good audiobooks, a hot bath before bed, and lots of physical exercise during the day don’t hurt!

No advice only empathy from another sleep deprived mother. Your post reminded me of a comment I have saved from the COJ post https://cupofjo.com/2023/01/05/best-therapist-advice/ “Work to give your kids what they seek emotionally and it will pay off in the long haul. My son wanted me to lie down w him while he fell asleep well past the age I felt like was appropriate. I think he was six or seven. I used to worry about if I was doing him harm by giving in. My therapist said, If you show up for him now when he is begging you to and you do so without judgment and to offer comfort, that feeling will live with him forever. Long after he doesn’t need you in that way anymore, he will remember that when he did, you were there for him.” I think of it often in the middle of the night and it brings me reassurance. Admittedly it does nothing to help with the sleep deprivation! Sending you hugs, it’s rough.

I have an anxious kid, and deal with anxiety myself, and have a counterintuitive piece advice: When you or your kid are beginning to spiral, instead of reassurances that the situation is not that bad, try asking “What’s the absolute worst that could happen?” You can’t fall asleep, so what’s the worst that could happen? Well, you have an unpleasant night, maybe you take a pause at two am to read a book (there’s a decent bit of research showing it can help to stop trying to go to sleep and take a little break!), and the next day you are cranky and exhausted and fall asleep at work or school. That’s not great, but it’s also not the end of the world. An anxiety/overwhelm/depression spiral can often be stopped, or mitigated, by cutting through the vibes (I’m so stressed and it’s all terrible and I feel terrible that everything is terrible!) and looking dispassionately at the worst possible outcome. This is such a help for parenting too – I can become caught up in trying to steer my kids to make the right choices (the long-ago battles with my four-year-old over weather appropriate clothes!) and stopping to think about the worst case can end that pretty quickly (just pack an extra outfit!).

I wrote this earlier but I went through this too. We were doing what it sounds like you are doing and treating it like sleep training, Im just outside the door or 10 minutes and Ill be back none of it worked and I was really tired and stressed Our therapist actually suggested that we put a chair in the room and sit. To not just be sitting and staring at the clock and claim the time for myself I put in ear bud and listened to a book or watched a show. He would sleep sooner, I was more relaxed, and eventually he stopped needing that. I think just getting to a calm place where everyone had slept and where sleep wasn’t such a struggle was key before trying to have him use his own strategies

Thank you, thank you, thank you! COJ commenters have shown up as my collective village and I couldn’t be more grateful. More than anything, it helps to know we’re not alone. There are so many tips that I don’t know where to start, but I feel confident that with the help of our play therapist and the many ideas offered here, we’ll be sleeping soundly soon! Thank you again!

We dealt with this when my daughter was 8 or 9. We found a book that really helps (barely even got through the first couple chapters, but that was enough to move us past the sleep struggle!). It’s specifically for older elementary aged kids, vs. a “little kid” book. Pushing our daughter’s bedtime late for a couple nights (so she was too tired to worry and just fell asleep) helped, too. And another thing was instead of telling her not to worry, etc., telling her that she needs to give her brain a job. Usually the abc game (thinking of an animal or a dessert that starts A, then B, etc.). Because if you don’t give your brain something else to think about, it will wander back to the anxiety! Here’s the book: What to Do When You Dread Your Bed https://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Dread-Your/dp/1433803186

Echoing the commenter about OCD frlm anotjer life-long OCD sufferer. Take your child to a true OCD specalist if there is one in your area. Or NOCD online if there isn’t. OCD is wildly debilitating, but also so very treatable if done correctly. ERP is the gold standard. Don’t trust any therapist who doesn’t use ERP as part of their methodology. If your child doesn’t have OCD, then there is no harm in having explored it. But if they do— and it sounds so much like they do— then this could be life altering care.

There are some amazing replies to this post. I’m not sure the therapist you went to is right, Ech. Each kid is different, needs different things and develops on their own schedule. My son has AU-ADHD and has dealt with a bunch of difficult things already in his 9 years. He slept in my bed all his life, until recently when he decided that he was ready to start sleeping in his own room. Before that he would absolutely, vehemently refuse to sleep without me. On the very few occasions when I insisted, he would end up sleeping on the floor outside the room I was in. He still sometimes wants to sleep in my bed with me when he’s afraid of the dark, and I let him, but he perseveres in his own bed (with an audiobook) most nights. I can’t be sure, but I have a feeling that one of the reasons he so strong, happy, confident and well regulated despite all his challenges is that he has been allowed to fully relax and feel safe at night – and get enough sleep! It helps of course that I’m a single mom so there is space in my bed for him, that I was happy to go to bed at the same time as him (I’m an early riser) and that we’ve had so many amazing bonding moments while falling asleep together.

<3

This is beautifully said. This reminds me of the Mama Nous song we often sing: I’m an ocean of emotions and that’s ok, I can ride out all my feelings because I know they come in waves…

love this reminder so much! I have heard emotions explained as being clouds and they can just move by and it can be helpful to not cling so tightly to each one! Has helped me a lot!