The New Way My Kids Do Chores
When I told my friend Nora that I was pregnant with a boy, she looked at me over our plates of pasta and said, “Oh, Joanna, you have the opportunity to raise a kind man.” I thought that was such a beautiful and moving sentiment, and over the past 16 years, I’ve really tried to do just that. I’ve taught my two boys about consent, periods, apologies, generosity, the list goes on.
At 12 and 15, they’re the absolute sweetest, but one thing that STILL drives me nuts is how I have to micromanage their chores. “Can you clear the table?” I’ll ask, and then point out that they still have to put away the salt and pepper, and my plate counts, too, and remember to wipe the table, and guys, don’t leave the glasses on the counter! Gahhh!!!! Or I’ll ask them to shut the shutters in the evening, and instead, they’ll absentmindedly turn off the light. “Oh, sorry,” they’ll say when I correct them. “I didn’t really hear you.”
Recently, we wrote about T-shirts that say “Dept of Invisible Labor,” and readers loved them. It’s so easy to feel like you’re silently running the show, while everyone else is bumping around. One reader replied, “I bought the Dept of Invisible Labor tee faster than you can say ‘Can you make me a list?’”
CAN YOU MAKE ME A LIST???? * all the skull emojis *
I realized, so help me god, that I will not raise boys who ask their partners to just give them a list of things to do. I will not! I cannot! And suddenly I remembered something I’d seen on Instagram or Substack — (if you know the name of the person, please tell me so I can link to them; updated: I heard of this brilliant concept from Sam Kelly!) — about a mom who handled chores a different way, so I decided to do the same.
Here’s how: Nowadays, instead of telling my kids exactly what to do to help, and then reminding and instructing them as they drift through the tasks, I ask them, “Toby and Anton, before we go to bed, can you please do three things to help in this room?” And they have to LOOK AROUND and NOTICE THINGS THAT NEED DOING and then DO THEM.
I mean!!! How great is that? It feels like such a no-brainer, it’s like answer to a riddle.
The first time I asked them to do three things, they looked around, confused. “What should I do?” one asked me. “It honestly looks pretty clean in here,” said the other. I encouraged them to keep looking and pointed out a few things until, in a couple nights, they got the hang of it.
Now, when I ask them to do three things, they’ll jump into action. “I’m going to take all the sweatshirts and socks to our rooms,” Anton said last night. “Then I’ll wipe the counter and take out the trash.” Next, Toby looked around and told me, “I’ll put all our water glasses away and set out the cereal for the morning and turn off the lights since we’re going to bed.”
These boys! I have to say, in the past 16 years, I’ve seen over and over that kids do want to be kind and good, they want to help and feel capable. And guess what? When these boys grow up into kind men, they will be ready and willing to write their own damn lists.
Anton and his cousin Jimmy at Christmas dinner, before clearing the table.
Jimmy: “Can you text that photo to my mom?” hahahaha
Thoughts? Would (or do) you do this? What other parenting hacks have you figured out through the years? I’d LOVE to hear.
P.S. How I taught my kids to chat at dinner, and the teen, the tween, the toddler, and the bump.
Comments
175 commentsNo children at home but there are grandsugars of the children whose lives are very busy. The children want to help but the example just isn’t there. When visiting, my motto is, “don’t put it down, put it up”. And then I explain to them what touching something twice means, if you put it up to begin with, you don’t have to touch it again, and it’s working!
The sweatshirts and socks line hit me at my core.
The GREAT Maggie Dent – the boy expert/therapist/mom to four boys- has excellent advice and books about raising boys. I could hear her sage advice whispering in my ears while reading this. Go find Maggie’s work!!
This is more an extrinsic reward strategy, but I had to share because I was so proud of myself for thinking of it. My kids are 10 and 13, and my husband and I went out to dinner the night before Valentine’s Day. We left the kids home alone (it was early, they have a way to get in touch with us and neighbors nearby). The house was messy when we left, and I was dreading waking up to a messy house on Saturday morning. The deal was: text us 4 photos of the kitchen, dining room, living room and basement cleaned up, and I’ll DoorDash you blizzards from Dairy Queen. They cleaned up, texted (using an iPad) photographic proof, I sent blizzards to the front door, and texted when the driver had left them on the porch. Putting technology to use in service of a happy mom! I came home to happy kids and a clean house after date night.
This is GENIUS
I get this but – why do we have to bribe kids to basic life chores? They should do this because they are going to have to do it for themselves one day, without rewards in place.
Ummm I still reward myself for basic chores too…. If I do the dishes, I get to watch my favorite tv show or eat a cookies or whatnot. I used to get annoyed that I had to bribe my kids to do chores but then I realized that if I have to bribe myself, why should they be any different?
@Sarah Levy – because they are kids and it is like training wheels. They need to be taught in a way that makes them understand that there are benefits to work. They won’t appreciate the satisfaction of chores completed as children the way adults can so, treats they DO understand are a gentler way to train them then simply cracking a whip with all work and no “play”.
Also, I’m seeing a lot of “BUT HOW WITH ADHD???” Listen: ADHD, for the most part, is a chronic dopamine shortage. You need dopamine to make the engine go that gets dopamine. It’s needing a pair of scissors to open a package of scissors. Every day, all of the time. What to do? (Other than take your meds. Speaking of which: Take your meds!) Firstly: kindness. To them, to yourself: “It’s okay that this part is hard for you. We can do hard things when we find the small steps. You are still good, and I love you whether it’s messy in here or not.” ADHD folks are always in trouble, always getting yelled at. We’re corrected and criticized as children 200* times more than our neurotypical peers. It’s damaging. If you’re an ADHD adult, or you have ADHD kids, or an ADHD partner: do not skip this step. Reinforce your/their innate value, your unconditional love, every time you discuss executive functioning. You are just as loved, and lovable, with undone dishes and a laundry pile, as you are with a spotless house. You do not earn love from labor. Skill building exists outside of our innate value. Secondly: there are a million Neurospicy hacks/tricks/ideas all over the internet, and collecting them and putting them into practice is its own pile of work. If you start from a place of grace and kindness, you will collect the approaches and tools you need. You are learning to be a person in the physical world. So are your children. So are we all. There is no one weird trick, but there are many escalators to find. (Like the 5 things I put in my other crazy long comment.) How to get dopamine to do the thing, so you can get dopamine from doing the thing? Find a little elsewhere. If you don’t have scissors to open the scissors package, use a box cutter. Eat a chocolate square before you tackle a mess. Put on music and play dress up out of the dryer before you put the laundry away. Pick a funny podcast for doing dishes. Get cleaning supplies in your favorite color, and style them where you can see them easily. You see where I’m going with this. There’s no mean ghost following you around with a clipboard, babes.
This is actually the 1 and the 2. Thanks Kara!!
It’s so important to explain to our kids that it’s way, WAY easier to learn Care Task Management when you’re young, and living with your parents, than it is to try to learn it as an adult. I wasn’t diagnosed with my AuDHD until my late 30’s, and the executive functioning disability runs deeeeeep in the genes. My parents solved this problem by hiring that work out to housekeepers and landscapers, etc… Which is totally fine; it’s okay to pay other people for their skilled labor, provided you pay them what they deserve. But it meant that I never learned those skills, and more importantly, I never learned them in a way that’s accessible to my brain. I’m messy in a way that makes my life harder. It’s not about keeping up appearances, or a shame-based moral lens on cleanliness. It’s about taking care of yourself and your home in the way you deserve. I model empathy and emotional expression around this as much as I can; there’s no “Oh it’s not that bad.” I yell “I don’t want to dooooo it!” At the ceiling, and then I get up and do a little something anyway. When they complain, I agree and complain with them. Then we imagine, out loud, how nice it will be when it’s done. “What if we could find what we need right away? What if this place was beautiful, with room for a dance party and nothing to trip over? What will it feel like to be proud of ourselves?” If you haven’t read How to Keep House While Drowning (or listened to it), I highly recommend it. The 5 Things system changed my whole life. It says that every mess has only 5 things in it: 1. Trash 2. Dishes 3. Laundry 4. Things with a home 5. Things without a home And I’ve added on 2 extra, for when there’s energy for them: 6. Dry dirt (that can be dusted, swept or vacuumed) 7. Stuck dirt (the kind that needs soap and water.) It helps SO MUCH with the overwhelm; I just say out loud, “There are only 5 things here,” and if you start in that order, you prioritize hygiene and safety. So if you only have enough spoons for one thing, at least you’ve improved your space in the most targeted way. My kids and I do a “5 Things in 5 Songs” clean. We choose 5 fun songs, and focus on the 5 things method for one space. It’s a party, and it’s teaching their spicy brains to look for stuff in that order. If we’re all out of spoons, sometimes we do a 1 Song Lazy Time, where literally any improvement gets celebration. Like one sock put in a hamper, or one empty sparkling water can in the recycling. I tell them: it doesn’t matter that this space, right here, today, didn’t get a big clean, it just matters that you put another layer on the pattern in your brain that can notice and pick up a sock. Every tiny mark in that neural network counts, because it will make it easier and easier. (They’re 7 and 10.) I’ve told them how embarrassing it was to be the messy roommate, the last one to notice when everyone else has pitched in at the dinner party/the group weekend trip/whatever. I’ve told them that we have to actively practice noticing those things. Other people just learn it via social osmosis, without a lot of effort. We have to practice it explicitly. I also tell them that we have talents and skills that other people have to work harder to do, and the world needs all of us 💜
I love this comment!
I’m going to try some of these strategies, I/we have really let things slide. Perhaps it’s just me, but my kids (10 and 7) are so volatile and grumpy at the moment that I am struggling to even get a civil answer out of them a lot of the time or separate them from fighting. I am tired, really tired and feeling like a failure but at least these comments give me hope that it is not too late. My husband has a chronic illness which means he can’t do much around the house and I am worried this subconsciously gives the kids the impression that Mum should be the one to do everything. My husband did a lot more before he was ill but they didn’t get to see that. Sometimes life just doesn’t turn out how you thought it would.
I have so appreciated Jo’s thoughts on raising two boys, and the comments from this wonderful community! So I turn to you all with a question: Is there a time when it gets weird for my boys to see me naked? I mean… I know that when they are pubescent, it probably does them no service to have a mental image of their mom in the buff. However, I do feel a strong pull to allow them to see what an everyday female body looks like — soft tummy, tiger stripes, slightly sad boobies, the works. I also want to be aware of being consenting partners, so there’s a part of me that wants to keep the door closed so they can work on asking for permission to enter. We already talk about not touching people unless they’re okay with it, so I like the idea of extending that lesson. Would love to know how moms of boys have navigated this!
With the caveat that I don’t know how old they are now, I can tell you with some confidence that they will 100 % tell you when they suddenly feel weird about it. We’re crunchy Oregonians, who’ve been chill about bodies forever, but when my oldest first said “Oh my gosh MOM, you’re NAKED!” it was the first of many conversations about bodies, privacy, home/in public, etc… I did my best to respond with curiosity and empathy. “I am! That’s a normal thing to be in the privacy of my home. It sounds like you have big feelings about it. I’ll put a robe on while you tell me about them.” It’s a complex landscape- you want to normalize a healthier way than we in the US usually go about it, while respecting your children’s comfort and boundaries, while also being clear about how the rest of the world operates so they’re not set up for rude surprises. The best thing to do is just keep checking in, communicating from your core values, and acting with mutual respect. My kids are 7 and 10 now, and we have the understanding that everyone at least has underwear on in common spaces, but you can be as naked as you want in your own room or the bathroom. Which means that knocking is an important part of respecting privacy. Like everything, it’s a learning process.
We don’t have kids but I’m going to do this with my husband! Fingers crossed that it works!
I thought the exact same thing!!
When my kids were little they were responsible for Sunday chores which involved cleaning their rooms and doing all their laundry. With regard to their rooms, I would tell them, “make it look like a magazine,” meaning I did not want to micromanage the situation. When they’re done cleaning, it should look neat and uncluttered. They’re grown now but when they come home and see me cleaning they say, “you’re making it look like a magazine” lol.
Just tried it out and my kid picked up 3 dirty socks. Baby steps I guess?
Kelsey Pomeroy has a tip of a similar vein about getting kids to read the room. When her kids come to her asking to play or for help while she’s cooking, instead of explaining herself and why she wants to help and can’t right now but just wait etc etc, she says to them, “What can your ears hear?” And they think the situation through, realise she’s in the middle of cooking and unlikely to be able to help there and then. I noticed a few mothers in the comments worrying that the pressure to raise a perfect man is so much. I have two young boys and every year I realise the limits of my control. I do my best to raise them to be kind, courteous and aware young men one day, but I firstly am not always perfect (and I think it’s good they see that) and I also am not their peers, dad, their teachers or mentors. I’m not in 100% control of them and I feel some relief that it’s not 100% my responsibility to make them the perfect men. In the end, you know whose responsibility they are? Their own. And so that’s why I try to teach them now, while they’re young, with tips like the one Joanna has shared, to take responsibility, look around and contribute.
I wish this would work! With a neurodivergent child that is an executive functioning nightmare.
Hi Sib, I used to work in a middle school for neurodivergent kids (middle schoolers!) and we were trained to use to use a “Get Ready, Do, Done” template to help the students better understand how to accomplish complex tasks from schoolwork to cooking a recipe in Home Ec. The trick is to work backwards from “Done” (maybe what Kim, above, would call “making it look like a magazine”–LOVE) to “Do” which is listing out the tasks involved in getting to the finished product, and then “Get Ready” which is working backwards further to noticing what supplies they might need to accomplish the identified tasks, and identifying any barriers to starting (i.e. low startup energy and in need of fun music playing for dopamine, we don’t have windex to clean the mirrors so we need to go to the store, etc…) . I’ll also say that if ASD is a factor, it can be useful to identify the different “zones” of a room that the child needs to practice noticing. We would take a photo of a room, print it, and outline the zones in colored marker, and encourage the child to list out the different activities associated with different zones (ex: when we’re at our desks, we do worksheets, in this corner we quietly read, in the open space in the middle is where we play, etc). With a little practice and review, the students would usually catch on and their noticing and contextualizing skills in that particular space would improve by leaps and bounds. I wonder if that could be useful in helping teach noticing for chores at home?
this comment section is probably a gold mine – Jo, you should do a follow up post with some of your favorites from the reader comments!
Hunt Gather Parent is an excellent book on encouraging kids to help and participate as a family in household activities. Especially for little kids, it’s helped me reframe “I am cleaning, you go play” to “come join me.” Kids crave being helpful and valuable!
I bought Sam Kelly’s “Notice and Do” talk a few years ago and love it. Staying consistent is tough but so worth it!!! We have to break the cycle of this. Also, I recently was listening to Taylor Swift’s 10-minute version of “All Too Well” with my 13 year old and of course he noticed the “F— the patriarchy keychain” line. He asked me what the patriarchy is. I have found many chances to bring up the patriarchy again, most recently having him listen to the ridiculous “congratulatory” phone call between Trump and the men’s hockey team, and then talking about why is went so wrong. Little by little, they will get it. We can’t give up on the opportunities to show them how to make the world better.
Love this comment, Lala! You sound like you’re having so many great conversations with him. I also tell my boys that the patriarchy is hard on boys, too. Everyone struggles under it. For example, boys may feel embarrassed when talking about hard things with their friends or showing emotion or vulnerability. Boys may get shouted out by red-faced coaches who can’t handle their own emotions or keep games into perspective. And on and on it goes. I feel good about this next generation!
AHHHHH Joanna commented on my comment!!!!! :) I feel so special!!! Joanna, I really appreciate what you said about the effect on boys too and I will bring that into the conversations going forward!!
I had a roommate who’s autistic and genuinely had a problem seeing what other people would consider “mess”, and at some point I got tired of telling them what needed to be done. I read about “notice and do” in the CoJ comments a couple years ago, and I talked about that to my roommate and we started doing that together when we were doing chores/ cleaning together, and it really helped! They’re a wonderful person and really wanted to improve, they just needed some help – and that method really helped them. We’re no longer roommates but we’re still close friends, and they still use that method to try and figure out what they can do for the house. In short, it’s good for adults too!
Department of Invisible Labor! Those shirts are made by my friend, Sarah! She and her spouse run an awesome community space in Oakland, CA called Local Economy, where they host events like “Storytime for Caregivers: Bring the Babies, but the Books are for You. “Fun to see her work get a shout out here :)
I’m in the Bay Area, do you know if they sell those shirts at Local Economy? Would love to drive there to support them if they do.
So funny, I support this approach FULLY, but as a single mom of a single daughter I am doing the exacccccct opposite. I lost so much of my life (not to mention a marriage) to performing domesticity and being attuned to what needed to be done. I am raising my daughter to be OBLIVIOUS. She generally doesn’t lift a finger beyond tidying up after her various projects and I love it. No laundry, no cooking, no dishes. She’s thirteen and spends her time at dance or on music practice. Hopefully this way when she inevitably encounters a man who thinks that housework is her domain, she will run a mile. (Please don’t confuse this with being rude, however – she is well trained on asking before she takes the last piece of pizza, hand writing thank you notes for gifts, caring for her possessions, keeping her commitments, and so forth. Just…. no laundry!)
Helena, I am curious to understand how this approach would help your daughter to be self sufficient later on in her life? As in regardless of someone ends up being in a relationship or not, as an adult, they have to do their own dishes, laundry, cooking etc etc. I am raising a son and involve him in helping out at home or making him learn to the recipies he enjoys etc. I view all the domestic skills as life skills.
Oh boy. I was raised exactly like this for different reasons and it was great as a kid but I’ve been paying for it ever since. I got used to living in a pigsty but I was always ashamed of it. It felt like cleaning was some skill you had to be both with. I’ve had to learn every step of cleaning and build habits from scratch, one by one.
I was raised the exact same way by a single mom, and now I love doing household chores! She’ll figure it out!
Lucy I know someone exactly like you! It’s why advice from strangers is often useless: if you even follow it in the first place, your results might vary, and really you should probably be listening to people who know you personally.
Great questions! @Daisy – my brother has a (wonderful) partner who was very looked after as a child and she is a highly competent human who co-runs their house of three little boys and has a full time job. Cleaning and cooking and laundry are not complicated for resourceful people, and I am raising my kid to be resourceful. That’s a separate comment, but if you’re interested, some elements are accountability eg if she makes a commitment she is expected to follow through; and meta cognition – she is given lots of opportunities to develop skills and confidence that she can. She’s not a natural musician or dancer but she sticks with them and practices because she loves them. She understands work and is not lazy. Domestic skills are readily learned in early adulthood. I did them for years as a child, helping my mother to run the house, and it gave me a constant awareness and sense of responsibility that I do not want for my daughter. I will teach her some basics when she’s older, of course, and I imagine the timing will come naturally. Eg I imagine when she’s 16 she will want to make her own food, perhaps invite friends over and cook for them. Or if she gets to the point where she is obsessed with the perfect outfit and wants to do laundry to meet her own needs. Great! I’m here to help. But it will be about meeting HER needs and not mine. @ Brielle interested in this comment. When did you get used to living in a pigsty? I make sure that my daughter and I do not. I’m in a slightly different position from other people, I recognise that – I think in big families (I grew up in one) kids probably have to pitch in more. Here it’s just me and her in a two bedroom apartment. I pick up our space regularly and if she leaves a big mess I don’t have time or energy for (eg painting or sewing project all over the floor), I ask her to do it. There are standards of consideration and decency. However the kitchen, cooking, laundry, cleaning the toilet and shower, all the routine household tasks belong to me because I am the adult. I think that maintaining standards and modelling them for her is powerful. She understands cleanliness, clutter, sees the labour. I just don’t compel it. You may be interested to hear that she often tidies her spaces of her own volition. I help her out with these but not religiously. Eg if she tears her bedroom apart getting ready for school, it may stay that way for a few days until I get to it. I remember reading many years ago on another topic (sharing) that when you force children into doing things, you rob them of the pleasure and satisfaction of their own choice. That resonates here. I would also say that she has a lot of natural gratitude for the things that I do for her. “Thank you so much mama” is heard pretty frequently around here. I prefer that to the resentment and animosity that I had for my mum at the same age. Generosity is an amazing gift to give a young woman. I would not give it to a boy in the same way, because they will get it from the world and most of the women they meet. @Lucy – interested to hear more! do you think you love the chores because you were never compelled? I actually struggle with executive function around household chores and I think it’s because of the resistance I naturally developed as a child to my mum’s demands.
I am curious how you would raise a boy instead of a girl – would it be the opppsite and you’d put it on him to do everything?
i tried this today after dinner and my 10 year old son took not only his plate but also mine. excited to see how this goes. I also think people who “see the work” are the best hires.
In my home, my husband is the carrier of the invisible labor. He constantly feels like he is picking up after us. My ADHD brain just genuinely doesn’t see the things he sees. Mix in post-cancer chronic fatigue and even when I see things, I just don’t always have the energy to do them. I really appreciated the book “How to Keep House While Drowning” by KC Davis. It helped me let go of some of the shame. I present to the outside world as super put together with the fun earrings and red lipstick, but these “simple” house chores and maintenance and laundry are truly anything but. So, I would just recommend thinking about if you are married to a neurospicy soul and know that they don’t always mean to frustrate you in this way! (We’ve done notice and do with the kids but it’s fallen to the wayside- thank you for the reminder!)
This is exactly my household, down to my ADHD brain not noticing things and post-cancer chronic fatigue. My husband carries most of the invisible labor because my son and I do not see it. He regularly gets frustrated that we leave the cabinets open in the kitchen, but we honestly never notice that we opened them and/or left them open. We all agreed to lower our standards for an organized house. We keep a clean house, not an organized house.
I genuinely had to stop and make sure I didn’t write this comment yesterday under a fake name because…same. My health stuff is really complicated and my husband is honestly a saint, and I am grateful every day for his executive function skills and that he doesn’t resent me for how much he has to use them. I am unimpressed with most husbands, honestly, but when I make mine a list it’s because I am regularly debilitated and it is the only way I can be helpful/feel like I have some agency. I’ve actually really appreciated the comments here about the list being the hard part! It helped me appreciate what I am physically able to contribute even on bad health days.
@Sarah Levy yes to lowering standards! my apartment is clean. It is mostly fairly organised. But do dishes stay in the kitchen overnight? does clean laundry often get piled in my room and worn before I put it away? Yup. I taught myself and my kid a long time ago that I wouldn’t sacrifice my sanity or rest for a perfectly orderly house. I had very severe arthritis for years (now resolved through surgery) and could barely walk in the evenings after work. I forgave myself for all the things that had to slide and I still do. A perfect home is not a moral achievement.
Amen Helena ! “A clean house is not a moral achievement.” I love that !
This is a great post, and I agree with all of it. This also brings up really strong emotions in me. I’m trying to figure out why. I am a heterosexual married mom raising a 17 year old boy. Ever since I was pregnant with him I thought about my opportunity and responsibility to raise a “kind, conscientious, respectful, man.” In other words, “one of the good ones.” I don’t think a week of his life has gone by where I am not confronted with that responsibility in some way. I think to myself, “I need to teach him X Y or Z so he doesn’t turn into X Y or Z.” I put a lot of pressure on myself for this. Also I’m a therapist. Tackling these issues is really within my wheel house and also my scope of interest. When I see a post like this, I get excited: “cool! One more tool for my tool box.” But it also brings up an anxiety and overfunctioning. Like, “Oh no. If I don’t do this, I’ll turn out a boy whose future wife will complain about him (and likely blame his mother).” I wish that more of this kind of content was geared toward dads. (And obviously, I know not all families have dads). I’m always really happy to read this content and integrate it and share it with my husband. But realistically, I’ll be the one to carry it out. It’s so exhausting to think about how to raise a boy to be the kind of man I wouldn’t complain about. And it comes with the burden of “it’s all on me.” Conscientious intentional parenting IS important to raising a good sweet boy. But it’s also not enough. Moms shouldn’t have to own the blame if they raise pretty great guys who also have blind spots like LITERALLY EVERY OTHER MAN ON THE PLANET. It’s going to take more than really great moms with great intentions to change things at that level we need things to change. This is societal, political, historical, and rooted in money and power, and even biology. These are emotional thoughts not fully formed. But it’s something I have been thinking about a lot as my 17 year old is almost ready to launch and is still super immature despite my best efforts. Also… I know the intention of this post was not to say that this will fix the world. I’m just trying to unpack why I have an emotional reaction to it. As I stated in the beginning of my rant, I love to see this kind of content.
Re: the pressure you feel. There’s this huge untruth perpetuated in our culture that good parenting = a kid who grows up into a person of high moral character. Obviously there’s some correlation, but there are plenty of great parents who have kids who end up nothing like them. Kids are human beings with their own strengths and weaknesses. On the positive side, I am so grateful when I get to see areas in which my kids character outshines mine.
Beautifully said XDFDFG- love that!
I feel this deeply!!!! It’s a LOT of pressure to raise them right when literally the rest of the world seems to tell them something different. All we can do is our best but it’s HARD!!
This resonates SO HARD and I’m so grateful to you for writing it.
Your husband is leaving the parenting to you – this is too great a load. You need to find coaching on how to get your husband to do his share. This will be really good for your son. I recommend the Reese’s Book Club book: Fair Play: A Game-Changing Solution for When You Have Too Much to Do (and More Life to Live) by Eve Rodsky. The first chapter alone is worth the price of the book, imo. It’s called: The case of the missing blueberries and is about how she figured out a way for her husband to finally – finally! – understand the enormous mental labor load she carried alone to care for THEIR children. It’s amazing. I wish you – and your husband – the best!
A list of considerations: -Please note that being human is having “blind spots”. Men, women, we all have them but most of us don’t see them. -One positive possibility: your husband’s more laid back approach creates a good balance to your style of parenting. -I think most boys will turn out pretty nice if they are brought up in loving homes. But they will be somewhat immature until their brains fully form (mid 20’s) and probably beyond. -Some boys will exhibit masculine behaviours… that should not be shamed. Just as we should not shame girls who are naturally feminine. -Everyone is different. Parenting can be hard. I am a bit surprised by how judgmental this post sounded, as Joanna is usually anything but. In some ways, the post offers a good suggestion. Maybe some people can be helped by it, but it won’t be for everyone. -Nothing wrong with lists, regardless of neurodivergence or not. Lists are helpful. They can be helpful in communicating your needs to others and also in clarifying your own thoughts and to do’s. No shame in that.
*ps: By “this post”, I mean this COJ post, not any of the comments.
When I was expecting a boy, so many people in my life reacted like this: “you can raise a kind, sensitive boy!” I thought, ok sure, but he could also be a sociopath? My child isn’t my volunteer project!! (Do girl moms just get to have fun??) Now I take this advice with a big grain of salt: Ok, here’s a tip for catching a common blind spot of men. But only if it’s not another burden for the moms!
Re: the biology – I am 6 weeks postpartum and had a heck of a time for the first 4 weeks. I listened to How To Not Hate Your Husband After Kids and while much of it didn’t actually apply to my situation (in most scenarios I was actually the “dad” and my husband was the “mom”), it mentioned a lot of the biological factors of why most men aren’t helping around the house! Maybe worth a listen to relieve some of the stress/guilt.
My boys are a bit younger (4 and 6). We use a Star Jar—a jar that can be filled with 25 plastic stars. For awhile, my youngest could not remember to bring his plate to the kitchen after dinner, and we’d have to tell him multiple times in a single night. I told him I’d give him a star every night if he remembered to bring his plate to the kitchen without being told. It worked! We gave it about 2 weeks to make it a habit, and he has been doing it for months now with zero reward. For a reward, 25 stars = a trip out for ice cream OR a small toy (<$5) from a local shop. We also use the Star Jar for my oldest trying a new food (he is extremely particular about eating) or being extraordinarily kind to someone. But Mom or Dad has to catch you being kind, you can't ask for one. :)
I love this idea! I’d love to see a post about CofJ readers who perhaps….. have partners who did not have this training at home. Particularly, my husband and I struggle with this because he wants to take responsibility but also has ADHD. It’s so hard when ADHD enters into a relationship in a way that can reinforce traditional gender training like this!
Yes, this …. this is a constant struggle in my home!!
We do a two-song tidy! We play two up beat songs at the end of the day, and in that time tidy + clean anything and everything around us. Sometimes we assign rooms, sometimes it’s a free-for-all. Two songs is enough for two adults and a 7 year old to get most things accomplished in our main area.
We’ve just started this in our house too! My boys are 10 and 13 and we had the exact same situation where we were telling them multiple times what to do or they weren’t listening when we asked for help. Now I say, “what do you need to do before we leave?” rather than “Clean up your dishes and brush your teeth.” It’s still a work in progress but my oldest is picking it up quickly!!
For years I was frustrated at my husbands lack of initiative, but with a lot of therapy we realised his neurodivergence often meant that he genuinely didn’t notice when the house was in disarray. I gave the dreaded list a go. And he loved it. We now have perpetual lists, like ones that come out every Christmas, or on Sundays (he automates these to send to himself) and we have shared shopping lists and task lists. I am primarily the list maker, but he is such a fast worker that I often wake up on a Saturday morning to an entire list completed. All this to say, if you have a loving and willing partner who is struggling with getting started, AND you have the capacity to get it started, there are systems like lists that can help you. And there should be no shame in that. It’s all nuance of course, I know a lot of dim men who ask for a list as a friction point to slow their wives down and get out of doing things.
My husband and I flip gender roles about tidying. He does more of the household tasks and I don’t know how to start seeing the things that bother him. Someone else’s list wouldn’t help me (e.g. he doesn’t care about socks on the floor, but does care about clear counters). He doesn’t want to make me a list, which I get because I hear from women all the time about how annoying that is, but also, I want help him feel more at peace in our home. Given that I have finite bandwidth to tidy, I would really prefer to target his pet peeve areas, but I’m at a loss.
This is an excellent point, Anon. I fully agree. And I believe even those people who ask for lists and are slower with them are often genuinely trying. One has to find what works for their partnerships and their way of being.
Thank you for this comment. I somewhat jokingly commented when this blog posted that I was going to try this method on my husband. But my husband has mental health issues that we are trying to treat, and if spending a couple of minutes creating a list helps him focus on tasks, then I’m happy to oblige. He genuinely wants to help around the house, and does, but needs my help to keep him focused on the tasks at hand.
Thank you so much for this comment Anon. My husband is also neurodivergent and also legitimately doesn’t notice a lot of small things in the house, but if I tell him what I need help with he is so happy to help me.
XDFDFG, can I offer this suggestion? If you have a hard time seeing the mess, switch to doing things on a schedule and do them whether you think they have to be done or now. You will have to talk to him about what are particular things that tend to bother him or tend to pile up. But instead of trying to “see” the mess, set phone reminders for things like “monday and thursday, gather and empty all trash” or “nightly at 7pm, clean and wipe off dining table.” The goal is not having to wait to notice it, assign it to a day and/or time and always do it then. You all will have to talk about what are his and your priorities for home tidiness though–but do that once, schedule it, and don’t rely on yourself to notice when it needs to happen. Does that make sense? A lot of ADHD folks tend to find this more useful.
Ragon, thanks! That makes sense, the things that have routines work well
What is the plant in picture with Jimmy wiping off the table? I really like it
a fiddle leaf fig! we’ve had it for 10 years!
This one is a winner – such an ELEGANT solution that solves from every angle, wow. Thank you for sharing in real time!
I love this! At our house before we head upstairs to do bath time we have 15-minute-mania where we put on music and a 15 minute timer and we all sing / dance / pick stuff up / clean until the timer goes off. Sometimes the main area of the house is already pretty neat. I like this as it forces us to look more closely at the room to find things that are off. My kids are 2 and 5. Not gonna lie, it’s sometimes hard to cajole the 2 year old to help out but when everyone is doing it she usually joins in.
I just imagined this, and the picture was so cute!! A 2 year old tidying up just warmed my heart :)
Every time I think about invisible labour and raising boys I think of my brother saying before he went to university that he had spent a day paying attention to what our mum did around the house – my personal favourite part was “the green stuff in the toilet”!! (He was aware cleaning happened! My mum just preferred to do the bathrooms herself!)
But how do i do this for my partner…?
My husband and I do a big clean on the weekends. Each chooses half of the space and does a deeper clean. We set a timer for an hour, take a small break and then set another hour timer and we’re done. It helps to do it at the same time and have a shared understanding of the tasks needing to get done.
I’d *kill* for my wife to get on and do her chores. We have totally different attitudes to doing them, we both work 4 day weeks and I will get up early on Friday and get all my chores done. I do my own laundry, wash the linen & towels, clean the bathroom and kitchen, take the trash out. She hoovers, dusts and does her own laundry. We split cooking and washing up. Notice how little she already does? This weekend at 6pm on Sunday she said she hadn’t done the chores and I hadn’t cleaned the bathroom so it was fine. I had cleaned the bathroom on Friday, so she spent the evening huffing around dusting and hoovering. It’s Tuesday of the following week and she still has not done her laundry. It’s mind blowing to me that she still has pants. Makes me livid, and just dumb shit like she’ll have a cup of tea and sit under a blanket but it’s me that has to fold the blanket and put the cup in the kitchen the next morning. She has no idea about the mental load at all.
Sammi, it sounds like your wife just has a different cleaning style and comfort level with her space…and that a conversation of expectations might be warranted before more resentment builds.
My husband and I do our laundry separately, and I really have no idea when/how often he does his. If he doesn’t have clean clothes, it’s not my problem! Might be worth trying to let go of control over things like laundry that only really affect her. But I get the frustration with household chores that affect you both.
Sammi, I mean this gently but it feels like your wife and you may benefit from couples therapy. There’s a lot of anger and frustration directed towards your wife. It might be helpful to work on this together in a safe environment. Best of luck, I hope you can find some peace.
My young adults are still at home…. and I am grateful that we instilled chores with them young! They’ve both done their own laundry since they were in middle school ( I pointed out to my husband that he was arguing with a 13 year old who wanted to do her own laundry!..she didn’t trust others to keep her special socks sorted…) They both pay rent, and they both know when we have dinner together clean up and putting leftovers away is on them! Part of my son’s daily routine is emptying the dishwasher in the morning before he goes to work!
If your system works for you, bravo! But I don’t think making a list is such a bad idea. My mother always complained that we didn’t help enough (she was right) and we dreaded the “I’d like some help around here!” She seemed to work all the time (she did) and I couldn’t face the concept that I too would sucked into endless chores. Finally, in middle age, I said, “Give me a list of what you’d like done. I can do anything if I know there’s an end…” This approach worked very well and after I completed tasks it didn’t feel like it was much more work to tackle more chores.
For parents of neurodivergent kids, we have found that a few well placed Perpetual Listd work wonders: My Room Is Clean When (numbered list, I slides clothes are in the hamper, bed is made, books on shelf) Table is set when : Bathroom is clean when : Laundry is done when : This has helped me stay calm when my well-meaning child loses track of what is supposed to happen next. It’s also a subtle way for me to gauge how she is doing (Ie if she is checking the table-setting list a lot, it usually means she has had a rough day is overwhelmed)
Yes, this is fantastic!!!! My fridge is currently covered in purple sticky notes—and it’s not sustainable. We’ve also tried apps to organize chores and somehow that takes more time
Any tips for getting yourself to do chores? I notice when things need to be done and I live alone so there is no question about who is responsible for doing them, but I have such a hard time actually getting started. It takes a good audiobook and a lot more time than it reasonably should for me to get things done
I find thinking of daily tasks as a system helps. There are X steps to breakfast (which includes the cleaning up). Also, for the chores I hate, I like to do them early and think of it as a little gift I am doing for future self – my morning self will be so happy to find the cooper coffee filter already clean & ready to go!
I also hate chores, and in particular washing dishes. I set myself up at the sink, put on my favourite songs of the moment (works best if they are cheesy pop songs/guilty pleasure songs) and tell myself I will do the dishes for the duration of two songs. Usually I get into it and work on the dishes until they’re done, but this helps a lot with the mental barrier of getting started.
One thing that works well for me with chores that take a bit more elbow grease, like cleaning the kitchen or the bathroom: I do those chores immediately after a work out. I’ll go for a run or do a workout video at home and then, while still in my workout clothes, I’ll just tackle the chore. Something about the exercise feels like warming up my body and I can use that inertia as momentum to get more done. I also tend to think, “well I’m already sweaty and need a shower anyway, might as well scrub the toilet and tub and then shower after.” I don’t know why, but it really helps!
No good solution, just want to say that you are not alone. I have so much shame about how hard I find it to do things that seem like part of being a regular functional adult. It is completely exhausting fighting myself on this day after day, and I feel enormously guilty that my husband does the lion’s share of household work, planning the pediatrician visits, etc. I have wondered about ADD but have never been tested.
If you live alone, counterintuitive but maybe just accept that you don’t want to do them. If you don’t have motivation, it’s not that important to you and that’s ok. Let it slide and see where you end up. I had a therapist who told me “it’s ok not to want to do things!” and I was like WOAH. Yes. Sometimes freeing yourself of the narrative that you “should” is the answer.
Winston, as someone with Adhd It definitely sounds like you do. Worth getting tested for the validation alone
every part of my soul feels this. i even take a day or two off here and there to do the chores and then magically don’t do them. or at least not the ones i thought i was going to do. generally, i’m ok with dishes in the sink, i do laundry every friday because i decided i could stick with that (and do, mainly). And honestly? when even i am annoyed by my own mess i invite someone over or think about inviting someone over and then i know i will clean. yeah sure i like seeing my friends but it is also about making sure i force myself to clean.
Before the arrival of our fourth child my boss shared her wisdom about getting her now adult children to do chores. It has transformed our kids and our lives. The wisdom? Every kid owns a job/s. They won’t do the jobs very well sometimes and we need to accept that. We cannot save them from these jobs. They are non negotiable. We might need to remind them but in time they won’t need reminding.18 months later and our kids accept they need to contribute and they no longer complain because asking them to help no longer feels like random persecution! No the older ones even offer to do more when needed or just simply take initiative.
Mom of a teen daughter here. Related to the good dignity that comes from work…When our daughter started babysitting, I told her she should establish what she charges. I helped her understand the market (what are other babysitters your age charging? For what jobs/how many kids?) and then I encouraged her (SO SO over enthusiastically) to tell her clients (the parents) what she charges. I do not want her to be one of those girls who says, “It’s fine. Pay me whatever you want.” NO, NO, NO! We talked a lot about how parents are paying for her to take care of their beloved children and keep them safe, and it’s OK to communicate the rate she wants; if a parent doesn’t want to pay that amount, no hurt feelings on either side! I believe in volunteering, and I believe in serving your community, and I believe in caring for those in need; AND I believe in not conflating those acts of love, given for free, with paid work (and not assuming girls or women will be willing to do so). I’m pleased to sya that at 16 (almost 17) years old, she’s a very, very popular babysitter these days, and she hasn’t done that wiggly, “I don’t know what I charge” dance once as far as I know. AND she’s got money to spend, save, and give!
Kudos to you both! I wish I had been given that direction early in my babysitting years. I had committed to babysitting two kids, with a flea-riddled poor dog, all day, 5 days a week for $50 a week… Because it was a family friend. The second day, coming back home with flea bites all over my legs, I asked my mom to take me to get a flea spray, cleared it with the mom who in hindsight should have been mortified but didn’t really care… Spent the entire day outside with the kids and the dog in Florida July, and was able to get through the rest of the promised weeks once the fleas were gone. I still look back and I’m mad at myself for that. I remember talking to my mom about it and saying it wasn’t fair, and she said you committed for that price and you need to carry that out. I understand that, but damn I wish I had thought that out. So I am proud of you both. I did go on to command good prices as a top quality babysitter 🙂 That summer… What a slog!
I freaking love this
Great job! :) I love this.
I did this when I started babysitting as a 12 year old and didn’t think twice, lol – how else would they know what to give you was my logic. I was not interested in working for free. I had all the business I wanted and made a very healthy monthly income – which was great because my parents did not believe in an allowance. Now I understand it was because they could not afford allowance with three children on a one parent income, lol.
This isn’t directed at the original comment but just a general frustration. I have had other moms of younger children say to me and my daughter “Oh I need a babysitter” without actually asking if that is something my teen daughter is interested in doing. And I have not yet heard of boys her same age having the same comments made to them. Not suggesting boys don’t babysit but I haven’t seen the same assumptions made of them. Frankly, I hated babysitting as a kid. Why are we thinking all teen girls want to babysit and boys do not? Perhaps I need, and my daughter needs, some more thought out answers when this situation comes up?
THIS! I babysat a ton throughout my high school years, but it wasn’t until I nannied for a family in college and the mom taught me this very same lesson that I learned to know my worth. She was incredible (we’re still in touch!) and taught me so much about valuing myself in this way. Now I’m a mom with my own nanny for my son and I’m trying to pay it forward by passing those lessons on to her.
@ Tricia, I had a boyfriend in my 20’s whose two best friends – two very cool young men in their 20’s who were part of an also very cool Seattle band – who were full-time nanny’s as their day jobs! I was in awe and wanted to marry them, lol. They were the sweetest, coolest guys.
A friend raising three boys taught them that thinking of all the steps leading up to the errand or chore are part of it. So step one was anticipating what might be part of it, which is so helpful and smart in the home and for life I general!
I found the best way to get kids to take responsibility for things was just to stop doing them. Obviously it only works for things they care about more than I do – so my most successful area was just resigning from all laundry (except my own, and teatowels) when they were about 11. Dirty school uniform/no clean sports clothes? They figured it out. Not useful for things like tidying up where my threshold for mess was way lower than theirs.
Ok, also…how did you get your fiddle leaf fig to grow so big? I’m on a constant mission to grow mine!
I have a couple that started small and have grown massive! What I’ve learned is they love sunlight, so put it by a window or in the sunniest room in your house. They also don’t like to move, so once you find a spot, just leave it there. I only water them about once every six weeks or so, and I clean the dust off the leaves whenever I water them. Also, you should shake the whole tree for several minutes a day to help the trunk grow fatter (weird but true!).
Yes! We all want meaningful work. I think this is why chores supports mental wellbeing in kids and teens too. I often appeal to my kid’s identity in chores, and scaffold it to skill-build. It took exactly one week for my 10 year old to become CEO of lunch-making. You are car concierge! You are the family gardener! It feels easier to notice and mange when it feels like it’s your full responsibility; part of your identity to manage it well.
LOVE this!!!
An alternate perspective – so many of us millennials suffer from productivity exhaustion. The idea that every part of your life has to be optimised. This sounds very fun for kids, don’t get me wrong, but I would be wary as they become teens and start to build their self worth.
My kids are only 4&5 but I’ve already started implementing the rule that they have to have physically moved 3 things while looking for something before they’re allowed to ask me for help. And then my sister reminded me our mom used to say ‘look with your eyes not with your mouth’ when we said ‘I can’t find it!!’ lol might bring that one back.
This is GOLD!
Haha my mom always said “look with your hands, not with your eyes” which I didn’t understand until much later.
I had an assistant manager (food service) who said this to me once and I nearly died laughing because it was so well deserved. Still one of my favourite things to tell people!
lol my ADHD brain has basically no object permanence, so it did not occur to me to move objects that might be blocking the thing I’m looking for, until I was IN COLLEGE, and my sister said, “You know you have to lift stuff when you’re looking for something, right?” I did NOT! Some of us have to be told things explicitly. Now when I’m looking for something, I say “LIFT, BATTY, LIFT” in my best Robin Williams’ voice, which is a Fern Gully reference, and it helps!
Our family ethos was “everyone contributes”, which gave us agency, responsibility, and community.
I get it. But my husband does so much to provide for my children and me that the least feels like the smallest gesture to help him get it right.
Um what? Do you not also do so much to care and provide for your family? Does your husband have to teach you how to get it right or do you just do it? It’s okay to want more!
um if your husband can presumably successfully execute the tasks that allow him to provide for you and your children, surely he can also successfully execute the tasks that need to get done at home?
He is an adult. He should be perfectly capable of contributing to household chores. If he needs to use some of the skills listed in the comments, then that’s fine – but he should not be exempt from contributing just because he “provides”. You also provide – and it doesn’t have to all be on you.
I think Sam Kelly is the writer popularizing “Notice and Do” as a parenting strategy – I bet she would love to know you wrote this and found her approach helpful!
In our house we call this “see something, do something” (inspired by the warnings in the subway – if you see something, say something!) my kids are younger, so they have a chore chart but there are 3 open spaces for “see something, do something’s” which count for double towards their weekly tally.
This is one way that helps kids develop executive function. We ask THEM to make the lists. We ask them to notice, problem solve, adapt. Your boys just aren’t going to be better at chores. They are going to be better at adulting. Strong work.
I haven’t read all the comments so perhaps this has already been said, but Sam has a book coming out about this concept, and she would be so perfect for an interview here, or even a Week of Outfits or House Tour segment. She seems so rad!
“Can you text that photo to my mom?” LOL
I love this and can’t wait to test it. I just had a weekend of invisible labor that was higher than normal so I ended the weekend upset, tired and just over it. Just one of those weekends for me! I know my kids love to help though and giving them the opportunity to see how they can help through their own eyes will be such a fun test.
Massively helpful strategy for me to try in my shared effort to raise two boys who don’t resort to using a woman’s brain power / mental load to “get it done”. Thank you!
Joanna – THANK YOU. I needed to read this today, feeling totally overwhelmed and sick of feeling like the ‘head coach’ at our house! This might give me some tools to stop micromanaging my husband, who loves nothing more than a list being written for him…so much so that some days he feels like my third child!
My husband makes lists of chores for the kids to do on the weekends, and they do it! He’s a good team leader and it works. Another thing that I think makes it successful is not expecting perfection. Good enough is good enough.
Married to a guy who doesn’t ask for a list and it really does feel like winning the lottery! Gotta ask my MIL her secret:)
Yes please do! And share with us if possible and if you’re willing :) That’s so wonderful.
I love this so MUCH!! Raise nice and thoughtful people! Speaking of nice people, we started Ted Lasso for the first time a few nights ago, and it turns out I’m married to Ted Lasso?? I constantly say,”Oh babe this is so you!!” and get tears in my eyes.
oh my gosh, sob!
I laughed so hard at Jimmy asking you to text the picture to his mom my dad asked what I was laughing at. Reminded me of another CoJ gem: kids want to be noticed ❤️
I believe this is Sam Kelly that you are thinking of! I follow her instagram: samkelly_world
yes!!!!! thank you so much, Megan.
You’re referencing @samkelly_world on Instagram! She’s a friend of a friend (Utah girls stick together).
This is way off topic – but I know you’re going to be able to help me. I’m going to baby shower in Manhattan on Saturday – my sister is having her first grandchild! What shoes do I need?? Is it still snowy? I’m so tired of boots that I’m hoping you’ll all say those cute leopard print flats – but I’m guessing I need boots. Over the child raising years we used many ways to get shores done. We had a dinner time chore wheel that we turned everyday so no one was stuck with the handwashing for too long. With other things we might pay per chore and with other things we all did them because many hands make work light. I wish I’d done more with cooking – requiring or creating an atmosphere of curiosity around cooking. My sons are tidy, more than capable in the kitchen, and very hands on with their children. My daughters are messy and avoid the kitchen at all costs. I think the real trick is to adjust for each child and as each child grows. But you guys know that already.
I’m visiting New York right now and happy to report you can wear any shoes you want, the sidewalks are so clear! I’ve only encountered one slushy corner in many miles of walking but it was easy to walk around it. When I got here a few days ago, I could NOT believe the sidewalks look so clear after a blizzard. Shoutout to Mayor Mamdani’s shovelers!
Me too! Visiting NY right now and it’s rare to see any snow. I was expecting slush and primordial soup. Go Mamdani!!
Just Last Night I saw the same/similar post on Instagram! My kids are grown now and I wish I’d read that years ago; such a better way of teaching them. I’m so glad you saw it and are putting it to work. Your boys already seem wonderfully aware (for teens!) from what you’ve shared, so Yes, you Will be raising young men who make their own damn lists! :)
Probably unpopular: I pay my 12 y old to make dinner, it’s 3 euros. It makes me happy and he’s excited to make ant kind of eggs, or pasta. Love from Paris
I actually love this idea! Maybe this trick would also act as encouragement for us single adults to make ourselves a quick dinner instead of ordering expensive (not that great) take out.
That’s a bargain!! :) This just sounds like allowance in exchange for chores, which is pretty classic here in the US. I kind of like the idea of giving kids a sense that labor is visible and valuable. Curious about others’ takes on financial compensation for chores.
Unpopular with moms but popular with my kids, I, too pay them. I run our household as an economy you can participate in. Littles do 2 assigned chores/day and chores change weekly. Teen does all of the floors. I pay half their age and half goes into their hands, half into their savings. I allow a max of five over time chores/wk. I give holiday pay. If you don’t reach 10 chores for the week, they roll over to the following week. My oldest saved enough this way to contribute 1/4 of the cost for her to sign up for the high school Europe trip. Not for everyone, but my focus is me doing less work and them learning about having jobs, the value of their time, and finances.
I pay for most but not all chores! $$ for lawn mowing, snow shoveling, cleaning bathrooms, and floors. No $$ for dishes, laundry, cleaning your own room, & other miscellaneous like taking out trash, driving siblings, helping out when we ask. Everyone has set chores and they can generally do their chores when they want within reason.
My parents paid us $100 per summer to not watch TV and it made for really good screen time habits as adults!
During high school, we started a tip jar. Rewarded for all sorts of stuff. Senior year, he used the money to go to Paris for the first time. Today, he visits 3x’s a year for work. So yes, I believe in financial education early.
This discussion is so interesting. I have three boys under age 8, so I am always working on ways to get them to do routine, mundane household stuff without nagging. As Dr. Becky says, we are raising adults, not children, so it’s really about the long game. For building executive function, we are taught the importance of lists/check lists- for example, visual checklist of items that go into a sports’ bag, so that the kid can see for themselves. Or keeping a planner for school work. I was raised by an A+ list maker of a mom, and I find that making my own lists really helps me organize my own thoughts. So maybe the goal is to help them make their own lists!
We do quite a bit of traveling and I’ve graduated my 10 year old from a list that I’ve made for him to a generic printed packing list from the internet with the instruction to cross out what he doesn’t need to bring and add anything that’s not on the list. It’s worked really well for us!
My elementary, middle, and high schools passed out free planners at the beginning of each school year and they made me a planner user for life. I like the idea of instilling a habit of list making in addition to helping kids (and adults) observe needs. I still buy the same planner brand, Blue Sky.
My kids have to make packing lists when we go on vacation, and based on prior experience, last summer I specified that the list could not just say “Clothes.” LOL. When we got home from our trip, I found the list my younger son had used, and it had most of what he needed to pack, plus a few unusual items… pantaloons, BATMAN, The High Ground.
Notice and do was something I implemented with my children as they grew up. In addition, from the age of 5 they were responsible for planning and cooking one meal a week (with my help!) In 5th grade they became responsible for doing their own laundry. They also chose their clothes the night before so they were ready in the morning. We had so many little things in our house that were “normal’ to them that they didn’t give it much thought, but by the time they got out of high school they were able to do everything they needed on their own. At college my older daughter became a clean freak which she never was at home. My son does almost all the cooking, cleaning and caring for his daughter in his home, and my youngest has found a wonderful husband to help her at home as she’s developed health issues. I look back and think I must have done something right! 🤣
Weird parenting hack I discovered. My kids are really into chewing gum right now and I secretly (well probably not such a secret) hate it. So I told them they can chew gum while doing chores. Somehow it’s working for all of us. More chores are being done and I don’t hate the gum chewing as much. Win-win.
Brilliant, Joslyn!!!!
Clever. I tried that with trips to the Dollar Store. Picking out the ONE item themselves was more rewarding than the purchase.
OMG THIS!!!! My two young daughters are realizing the power of invisible labor so early. A few weeks ago, my husband called to me from the other room “hey love, where is the ketchup?” My inner monologue went a little something like this: could you first think of a logical place for the ketchup and check there? where have you found the ketchup for the last 14 years we have lived together? why am I, a full-time working mother, who is currently folding laundry with 2 kiddos beside me, who had a stressful week, the only adult capable of finding the ketchup in this house???? But then my 5-year-old, without missing a beat, called to her dad “look with your eyes, they work very well!” And I could not have been prouder. I beamed with the satisfaction that my very young little girl will not put up with a partner who can’t take care of themself.
This is incredible!!! I’ve taken to just responding “I don’t know” to these kinds of questions from my husband sometimes- turns out his eyes do work very well!
YES five year old! I started “Where have you already looked?” with my sons, 8 and 11, but far too often end up using it on my husband, too. Now they expect I’m going to ask that, so at least they don’t request help until they’ve exhausted (most) logical places. I got that prompt from The Gamer Educator, a fantastic resource on building independence in kids.
Omg this 5 year old is going places! I laughed so hard.
I am married to a very kind and generous man who does a LOT to make sure our home life is equitable. A few years ago I did get tired of him asking me where common household items are, so I charged him $5 for each question. Once we got to $20, he stopped asking and started looking himself! Game changer.
I used to say “Make it look like you were never there.” The dining room table would be fully clean, wiped, chairs pushed in. It works!
What am I missing? What’s wrong with a list? To me it shows someone’s willingness and desire to do exactly what you want and to not miss anything.And maybe some self-awareness that whomever you are asking knows that they are not as detail oriented as you’d like them to be. I think that’s awesome.
The point is that it’s still up to – typically – the woman to do the work of coming up with a list. That’s the “invisible labor” part of it. Sure, if there are a bunch of specific tasks then lists are great, but other should be able to see and take care of basic tasks without needing a list.
I’d say it’s kind of the difference between a fresh-out-of-college or high school assistant, and a seasoned colleague? Like sometimes lists are appropriate for either. But you might expect to really delegate specifics regularly to a newer staff or team member, whereas your seasoned colleague knows their workload and just gets stuff done. It would be weird if a lateral work partner always needed a list, because they know their job and role and are hopefully competent, and likewise, a domestic partner should be able on their own to do what needs doing without a list provided.
Hi! Making a list is more work (on top of work work work) for moms usually, when the person asking should know already if they are paying attention. Kids/partners can become confident leaders in the chore cycle, not just followers waiting to be told. Ever have someone take a load off of you without asking first? It’s nice.
The mental load of having to make a list. Not only do you have to be the person who prompts “clean up the living room” as others may not think of it, but now you have to do an inventory and detail exactly what needs cleaning. Teaching ’em to figure that out is so important. Now maybe they make a list and then check in with you, but there is absolutely brainpower used in figuring out what exactly needs to be done, and it shouldn’t fall on someone asking.
When my husband asks me to make him a grocery list (for example), it sort of acknowledges this uncomfortable truth that he A) doesn’t know what we’ll be eating, B) doesn’t know what we have in the house and C) isn’t capable of figuring that stuff out without me. I know the specific preferences of everyone in our house, which cereal he likes, which of my kids don’t like which shape of Mac and cheese, the fact that we’re having guests over this week and need to pick up something special for that, blah blah blah. Simply saying “make me a list!” puts it all on me and takes out the chance at collaboration. Without both adults being able to mentally manage the work of running the house, one of them is just the butler, and it’s not usually the husband.
I feel the same. I’m a woman and a mother married to a man, and frankly he prioritizes different tasks/chores than I do and vice versa. I often wish I had a list from him (and have made one over time in lieu of him giving me one) because it simply would not occur to me to do some of the things he cares about. I have a friend or two who complain about their husbands not reading their minds to volunteer to do various chores and I keep quiet but always want to ask…why not make them a list if they’re indeed willing to help?
Or also the excuse, I need you to tell me what to do. Adults really shouldn’t need someone to tell them what to do – man or woman. I am an avid list maker. Thankfully my husband is wonderful but I would never make a list of items to do for him. If I have to make you a list of things to be done, you are not present enough in our household. :)
I wonder if it’s related to my biggest pet peeve: when my husband asks me a question that: a) I don’t have any more information about than he does (like when we’re traveling somewhere and he asks me what time the hotel restaurant opens) b) he could find the answer to himself. It’s perhaps less about “a list” than about defaulting to the woman to keep the mental inventory. (Especially about household “admin” like appointments and anything to do with pets or children.)?
I absolutely hate it when my husband asks “what can I do”. Dude, there’s a million things. Fold your laundry that’s been sitting in the dryer for a couple of days. Take care of the mail that has your name on it. Why do I need to tell you to do these things? I don’t. Oh, you got home and I’m still working in the office, then why didn’t you unload the dishwasher? Why do I specifically have to ask?
Would love for my spouse to be open to a list. Would not recommend marrying someone who doesn’t respond well to requests (I didn’t realize this trait was in the mix until after we got married).
If making the list is what is frustrating, just do it once and laminate it. I bet most of the tasks you ask for are repetitive. In Jo’s example of clean up the kitchen, the list would include take all of the dishes off of the table, put them in the dishwasher, wipe off the table, etc. Every time you want something done you just hand over the list and everything is done to your satisfaction. This seems so simple to me. You may be the “invisible labor” the one time that you make the list but from there on out you are the beneficiary of someone who is willing to do everything exactly as you want.
Kimberly, I hear you and I agree with you. Communication is important and lists are a tool that help with that.
Also, to everyone who is so down about providing a list: Is it possible that you have very specific standards and want things done just so? If your partner (male or female) doesn’t quite understand your thinking, they should be congratulated for asking “what can I do?” Or “how can i help”. You have a partner who is trying. Don’t shame, just tell ‘em what you need. (Maybe what they need is different and they just want to give yoi what you want).
Cara–that sounds hard. A few threads in the comments talk about declarative language and demand avoidance. Maybe reading through them will help? Wishing you peace!
This is a genius hack! I’m definitely going to add this to our household’s other amazing hack, which is already working wonders since we started it: using the Greenlight app to automate (and monetize) the kids’ chores. Not only is it teaching them about financial responsibility, but it has been a game-changer for me, the Head of the Dept. of Invisible Labor. I no longer have to keep asking them to do basic chores every day, over and over — because there’s nothing that makes being the Head of the Dept. of Invisible Labor more degrading than having to nag about it!
Mom of three tweens/teen boys here and my rule is that if a chore is yours you own that chore and All of the Mental Labor associated with it. Which means if it’s your job to handle the trash (for example) then I should never have to think about trash (and I should never go to throw something away and ahve the trash can be too full to use). The person responsible for the trash needs to: notice when it’s empty and then take it out, take it to the curb on trash day (and return the cans the next day) and add trash bags to the grocery list when we are out of them. Enforcement is simple since we pay allowance for chores, and if I have to remind you (aka do any of the mental labor) then you don’t get allowance that week. This probably makes me sound super strict but I swear I’m not- we sit and talk about new chores and discuss what mental labor goes along with it and I am always here to help them strategize how to deal with the mental/physical load but day to day, once they take on job (and receive the allowance for it) it must be off my plate completely.
This is awesome, Meg. I also feel like as moms we need a new word for strict because of the negative connotations. I think it’s an act of parental love to teach kids there are responsibilities in life and consequences when you don’t follow through. My dad made me re-wash the car as a kid because I did a crappy job. Second time I got paid. He taught me a great work ethic.